Any teachers here? Do teachers stop working when the kids do?

[33feethighandrising]

I made an informal complain with my DS's school a few weeks ago. I got an asnwer from the deputy head minimising my complaint, that made it clear she didn't really understand what I was saying.

It's a complex issue and I haven't had the time to formulate a response till now, but it's now the end of term.

I'd like to:

a. get a response from the deputy (in September would be fine)
b. make it a formal complaint (so, it'll go to the head)
c. give them and the governors some information from experts to help them undertand where I'm coming from

I don't expect a response from them at this time of year, but if I send something today, will the read it before the new term?

I was thinking of replying, saying I will expect my response in September but here's some info to help you understand where I'm coming from.

Is that fair enough? Or should I just wait till September?

I'd love to hear from any teachers or people who work in schools, I'm not sure wast to do.

@AttaGirrrrl

It’s to do with transgender students isn’t it? School will already have a policy and have taken advice about their approach, whether you agree with it or not.

Yep I definitely agree it’s about transgender issues. OP the school don’t need ‘educating’, they just don’t agree with you. They will have very carefully thought out policies in place and if you don’t like them you are welcome to move your child to another school. Schools have a responsibility to look after the welfare of all children under their care.

Also - the deputy head will not have replied to you without consulting the head, and the governors will support the head teacher in following school policy. If you are really unhappy with the school I would start looking at other schools in the area

I want to work with the school if at all possible, not antagonise them unnecessarily or start a fight.

Everything you've said here appears the direct opposite of this

How is it 'working with the school' if you are making a formal complaint?

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't make the complaint, but your attitude sounds terrible and the faux helpful approach fools no-one.

Poor teachers.

You say that you weren’t prepared for a phone call with the Deputy (as you did not have your notes with you) and that the Deputy has promised response once you get back to him/ her, which you admit to not doing.

This is where it’s at. You’re at the informal stage of the complaints policy but have not shared the full information at this stage for it to be dealt with at this stage. If you write formally, it will be referred back to this stage.

I’d not take kindly to you sending me ‘advice and guidance’ links in my holiday if you’d not bothered to get back in touch with my Deputy as you’d advised you’d do. The Deputy has designated time to listen and to take seriously; to then be impacted by your time delays.

As for posting on FB most parents would largely not be interested if it’s about transgender. If you feel the school’s knowledge is not where you think it should be, the parent group knowledge certainly won’t be.

teachers read their emails at all times

If it is the issue people are suggesting, you are handling it well OP and doing all the right things. Informal raising of concern as an opportunity for discussion and learning first, raise with the governors formally next if your concerns arent adequately addressed. Unlikely they’ll look at it before September, but if they’re smart they won’t ignore it.

Despite some posters calling you ‘that parent’ and telling you to suck it up or move your child, this IS a burgeoning issue in schools and attitudes are beginning to shift (slowly) as schools are made aware of potential safeguarding issues and conflicts of rights under the Equality Act, and start to question where they are getting their information and interpretations of the law from. I suspect more developments in this area imminently.

I’m an experienced secondary school DSL, so I’m not talking out of my arse.

@Strictly1

As a HT it is the first day of my holiday. After the year we have all had, I feel dead on my feet. As usual my body knows it can now begin to relax and I feel poorly. To receive a complaint today would push me over the edge I think. It would certainly impact on my holiday. Yes, I have a long to do list so it won't all be r and r but I know what's on that list. If it can wait until September, let it wait. To send it now is unnecessary and cruel.

Exactly this. SLT are human beings and hugely invested in the school. If everyone is safe (so not the scenario outlined about safeguarding) then all that’ll happen is someone will be having sleepless nights worrying. Most school workers are exhausted and need the holidays to try and de stress and focus on family and health. I try to give myself the first 2 weeks of no work, just like most people have on a holiday. Warning someone of an imminent complaint is worse than complaining! A complaint requires an investigation and no decent HT would contact teachers during the holiday unless it was absolutely vital. Write the email, schedule send and wait until schools are open and staff are contactable.

If it's a secondary school, the next two weeks are when the people you want to talk to will absolutely be taking a break. Attempting to wind down after a hideous Covid year, and spending time with their families.

It's the only time they'll get to do so, because then it will all be about exam results coming out and supporting students through that and their university applications, and as soon as that's over, they'll be in school working to get ready for the new term.

This is literally their only break, and their only holiday as most people would understand it. For goodness' sake, please leave them alone to recuperate.

Wow, there are a lot of assumptions here! And the usual posters desperate to have a go, and others not reading the updates.

To repeat myself, I've already sent the emails, so it's pointless telling me what to do now, that ship had sailed. I made it clear I didn't expect a response till September.

This is an ongoing complaint that started a month ago so it's not going to be a shock that ruins someone's holiday, I appreciate a new complaint just before the holiday could well do that, but this isn't that.

If you write formally, it will be referred back to this stage.

I've already sent a detailed letter when I started the informal complaint, then a phone call which was the response to it, but which wasn't arranged in advance, this email is a follow up to that, as agreed.

I'm not going to get drawn on the detail of the complaint. Firstly I don't think it's wise in case the school comes across this thread. Secondly I think DS deserves privacy and not to have an issue that is to do with him and potentially identifying both him and his school plastered over the internet.

Lastly, no fucking way am I going to share any sensitive information for the vultures now present on this thread to pick over and attempt to use as a stick to beat me with. I'm not playing that game today. Sorry not sorry.

Thank you to those of you who gave advice and insights, it was useful and I really appreciate it.

Informal raising of concern as an opportunity for discussion and learning first, raise with the governors formally next if your concerns arent adequately addressed. Unlikely they’ll look at it before September, but if they’re smart they won’t ignore it.

Thank you. I was dealing with a complex complaint at work, I know I'd appreciate the extra time to get to grips with it.

I've not rushed into making it a formal complaint, which I could have done 4 weeks ago, and which would have forced the head to respond to me in 3 weeks, during the last week's of term, which is surely more of a burden than having plenty of notice it's potentially incoming?

I genuinely to want to try to have a productive dialogue with the school, I'm not just having a go at them!

*If I was, I mean.

I don't really understand. You've said it's a formal complaint that requires a response within three weeks, but you say you don't expect a response until September?

Seriously though, if you want a productive dialogue with the school, raising a formal complaint in the first two weeks of the holiday - probably the only weeks of the holiday when the exhausted SMT actually get to switch off, really isn't the way to achieve that. But as you say, it's too late now.

It is the height of unprofessional behaviour to treat a complaint differently because of when the complaint arrived.

@saraclara

I don't really understand. You've said it's a formal complaint that requires a response within three weeks, but you say you don't expect a response until September?

Seriously though, if you want a productive dialogue with the school, raising a formal complaint in the first two weeks of the holiday - probably the only weeks of the holiday when the exhausted SMT actually get to switch off, really isn't the way to achieve that. But as you say, it's too late now.

I have not raised a formal complaint.

I am dealing with the deputy at the moment, it is an informal complaint.

The complaints policy says they must respond to a formal complaint within 3 school weeks, so if and when I make it formal, that's the timeline they're committed to.

I have not raised a formal complaint.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

@Iusedtobethin

It is the height of unprofessional behaviour to treat a complaint differently because of when the complaint arrived.

Thank you.

@saraclara

I have not raised a formal complaint.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

No worries :)

I'm hoping giving the school some time to understand the issue before I make it a formal complaint (if I do, but looks likely at this point ) is the right thing to do.

No complaint will be dealt with differently depending on when it arrives. Just the staff member reading the email and then having to deal with it may now have 5 weeks of background stress to deal with rather than 2 weeks had OP sent the email mid August.

I think you need some appreciation of how much goes on in a secondary school OP. Your concerns may be genuine and helpful in the long run. However the leadership team will not have you as priority number 1.

@Iusedtobethin

It is the height of unprofessional behaviour to treat a complaint differently because of when the complaint arrived.

Well yes, but if the complaint arrives at the beginning of the holiday it is not going to get acted on for a while.

As I said earlier, if you want someone to pay attention to a difficult issue, you need them to be feeling positive and fresh, so that they can approach it from a good perspective.

I've been on both sides of getting this wrong. I made that mistake as a parent, and I've felt incredibly pissed off as a teacher, when something I'd normally have addressed in a positive manner, was handed to me at the worst possible time (when it easily could have waited).

School staff are human. They will obviously be professional, but especially if they're likely to disagree with you or find your complaint difficult, it's exceptionally bad psychology to approach them when they're knackered and looking forward to their break.

Obviously you are pursuing your ideological argument about the use of Allsorts in school. I think you should just send your formal complaint so they can compose a response and go through the process. They are probably fed up of you and want to just get on with teaching and learning so going straight to formal will save everyone time. I feel sorry for schools being battered by both sides when all they want to do is look after the kids and be an inclusive as possible. No doubt they also have long list of links and info from people who are saying they are damaging kids by using the wrong pronouns etc.

Oh dear OP. I can just imagine your email, peppered with "useful" links you're advising the staff to read. Honestly, the likelihood of you having access to information that school staff don't have is very very slim. Schools have access to lots of information about lots of things. They have access to advice from a wide range of places (depending on the issue) and if, as you say, they are part of a MAT, many large decisions will be taken in a very broad way, involving even more sources of knowledge and information. Your googled links, sent at the start of a summer which is the end of what has been, without doubt, the toughest year in education, will be met with a groan. Unless there is an urgent need (and by that I mean a child in danger that you are aware of), it will wait until September. And yes, I appreciat that you have already sent it.

My teacher dd works all holidays, preparing for the next term etc but she doesn't reply to emails when not in school. Wait til September.

Your googled links, sent at the start of a summer which is the end of what has been, without doubt, the toughest year in education, will be met with a groan.

Exactly. I'm afraid you've shot yourself in the foot with that, OP. Yes, the staff will respond professionally, but on an emotional level, the positive relationship you want to build has been put at risk by your lack of empathy and consideration.

@33feethighandrising

Yeah, and you are that poster echt.

Like a fucking vulture, looking for people to pick apart.

It won't wash here, I've been here 14 years now and it's skin off a duck's back.

Personally I'd much rather be the parent who communicates with the school when she sees a significant risk to the kids unfolding, than the poster that makes entertainment out of picking at someone who's making that complaint. I'm sure you'd rather be you though. Why don't you fuck off and do some troll hunting elsewhere or something.

I won't reply to you again.

If this risk is so significant why haven't other parents spotted and raised it, either on the face book group or directly with the school. Maybe the issue isn't as significant as you think