What is ‘deprivation’

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It’s such a common term. I have my own idea what it means, but would like to hear other ideas. A lot of people and situations described as ‘deprived’ I would not consider to be deprived

I think a teenager choosing not to learn is a decision, not a depravation

I don't agree with this. We don't make decisions in a vacuum. It's years of social and emotional conditioning that determine much of our decisions. For me, being unsupported in education and having family members ridicule education means that teen is deprived.

@4PawsGood

How is not enough food and no heating not deprivation?

I think. It having enough food would be deprivation. But that doesn’t mean you have to have 3 meals a day. And I think you can have a perfectly good home without heating or hot water. These things are nice to have, but are luxuries not necessities I have not had these things most of my adult life

I dont at all agree with teenagers choosing not to learn being a decision. They are influenced by factors that fall within the defined terms of deprivation.

I agree that deprivation isnt just income and its multifaceted. However, the elements of deprivation listed in this thread are linked to a low income. You can also have a loving, nurturing background but still come from a low income. I think deprivation stems from peoples outlook and subsequant actions, which in turn comes from learned experiences.

You've lived without hot water and heating most of your adult life?

In my view living with a lack of heating and hot water on a permanent basis would count as deprivation-for children and for adults

I think a teenager choosing not to learn is a decision, not a depravation

I really hope that you're not a secondary school teacher with that belief. Have you thought about the factors that may cause a teenager to disengage from education?

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

You've lived without hot water and heating most of your adult life?

Certainly for much of it yes. Not recently. I’ve had it continuously for the last 10 years or so. I never take it for granted though , not feel that it is a necessity

@NursieBernard

I think a teenager choosing not to learn is a decision, not a depravation

I really hope that you're not a secondary school teacher with that belief. Have you thought about the factors that may cause a teenager to disengage from education?

Yes, and I feel I’ve been suckered in to this way of thinking for decades, and am now very much questioning it.

Interesting. I think its contextual. In certain parts of the world no hot water or heating would not be counted as deprivation. In the UK I think it is because the norm is to have it. I think you dont count it as deprivation because it was your norm, but its not societies norm.

My main memories as a kid are of always being cold and hungry. It was the lowest effort way to abuse us as children because it didn't leave marks.

Of course that's deprivation. You can keep telling yourself that it wasn't, but if you had kids who didn't have access to a warm home, enough food and hot water, whether it was because you were skint or because you thought it didn't matter, your children were deprived.

Some of what you say makes me wonder if you are currently a teacher and, if so, where.
There are so many reasons why children are unable to take advantage of the admittedly free education on offer. One example would be the cost of getting to school. I'm sure others can give many more examples.

There was a thread today started by a parent that didnt want to send their child to school because it was fancy dress and they couldnt afford a costume. Another reason why a child cant access free education due to deprivation.

@Eviebeans

Some of what you say makes me wonder if you are currently a teacher and, if so, where. There are so many reasons why children are unable to take advantage of the admittedly free education on offer. One example would be the cost of getting to school. I'm sure others can give many more examples.

I have mostly taught in ‘deprived’ areas of London. I now teach in Hertfordshire. Which is technically less deprived. But I think not

But most children live within walking distance of school in the cities, so that irrelevant

But that doesn’t mean you have to have 3 meals a day. And I think you can have a perfectly good home without heating or hot water.

As an adult, I would be OK on two meals a day, and I can also manage without hot water (though I wouldn't want to).

For a growing child, two meals a day aren't enough, particularly if they aren't especially filling or nutritious (as is highly likely if a family can't afford three meals). If a child is hungry, being cold in winter is going to be much harder and more draining. Washing in freezing cold water is going to be a very unattractive prospect, if you're cold and hungry. I find it baffling that you don't seem to understand this.

OP- you asked in what was was access to education is more complex.
I have worked as a careers adviser and In widening participation/social mobility for years and now research/write on the topic.

Access to education is complex for many reasons but I've listed some below. I'm including access to university too.

• cost ( travel, uniforms, books, materials, access to tutors, the need to have a part time job and contribute to family finances etc)

• perception of education and the value placed on it

• cultural and social capital- what is viewed as 'acceptable' for people like you to do and whether you feel like you fit in. Also, knowing the right people and the right way to behave.

My grandson will be starting school in September and has been offered a place at a school which is at a distance that his little legs certainly couldn't manage to walk. But that would be only one of the barriers some children face.
If you are serious about doing research and possibly becoming involved in politics with the aim of making a difference and somebody definitely needs to - really listen to what people are saying - some of it is shocking

@TheDevils

OP- you asked in what was was access to education is more complex. I have worked as a careers adviser and In widening participation/social mobility for years and now research/write on the topic.

Access to education is complex for many reasons but I've listed some below. I'm including access to university too.

• cost ( travel, uniforms, books, materials, access to tutors, the need to have a part time job and contribute to family finances etc)

• perception of education and the value placed on it

• cultural and social capital- what is viewed as 'acceptable' for people like you to do and whether you feel like you fit in. Also, knowing the right people and the right way to behave.

Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply

@Eviebeans

My grandson will be starting school in September and has been offered a place at a school which is at a distance that his little legs certainly couldn't manage to walk. But that would be only one of the barriers some children face. If you are serious about doing research and possibly becoming involved in politics with the aim of making a difference and somebody definitely needs to - really listen to what people are saying - some of it is shocking

How far away is the school?

access to education:

if the parent is too busy working/too disabled/can't read/does not value education then the chidl is at a disadvantage as they do not have the help required or the parent does not know that they need to go and see a play, or can not affford it or it is too difficult due to disability.

ex has already said that certain universities are not for people like us.

I think. It having enough food would be deprivation. But that doesn’t mean you have to have 3 meals a day. And I think you can have a perfectly good home without heating or hot water. These things are nice to have, but are luxuries not necessities I have not had these things most of my adult life

A child who is cold, hungry and possibly not the most hygienic because they're washing/having laundry done in freezing water is most definitely deprived. Not having our most basic needs met affects a person as a whole, you should really know that.

@BlackeyedSusan

ex has already said that certain universities are not for people like us.

I hear this all the time in the course of my research.

Well, our government would love you, OP. Children don't need 3 meals a day, hot water or a washing machine? Hurray, let's slash the benefits bill some more, and then if they can't achieve at school, we will blame them and their parents for being feckless and choosing not to learn.

This is the UK in 2021. It is the norm for households to have heating, hot water, sufficient food - and yes, Internet access too, given how pivotal it is to accessing school work these days. Your argument seems to be the age old one about how nobody is poor in the UK because people in developing countries are much poorer. That's not how it works, context is everything.

As for the argument about a safe and secure home - yes, having a loving happy family is a huge positive. But maybe we should think about how many more loving happy families there would be if people had enough money to live decently?

Your point of view smells Tory.

• agree with teens making descion in a vacuum and this is where the schools need to step in

Plenty of dc have access to education but they can't get educated! For a host of reasons.

I also agree in other countries dc live in what we would call hovels with no basic amenities and yet their loving parents and families manage to turn them out looking smart for school and they learn!
I've noted how poverty can seem more extreme in some countries but the children don't appear as deprived somehow as some very poor children here in the UK.

I think. It having enough food would be deprivation. But that doesn’t mean you have to have 3 meals a day. And I think you can have a perfectly good home without heating or hot water. These things are nice to have, but are luxuries not necessities I have not had these things most of my adult life

Heating and hot water are not luxuries.

A child who is cold (and never having heating is not solved with layers as easily as the odd night or two) will not sleep as well. They’ll not be as free to play with toys if it’s too chilly so sit and play.

Lack of hot water will mean clothes and bodies being washed in cold water. Clothes, in a house with no heating, will take longer to dry and may be constantly damp. Washing in cold water in a cold house is never going to be conducive to good hygiene.

Even down to simple things - you can’t, as a child, invite your friend round to play if your house is freezing and they can’t wash their hands in hot water after going to the bathroom.

When you can’t invite your friends round that impacts your friendships. The invitations you get lessen. Which then, in turn, makes school less pleasant.

These things may be small individually, but they have a knock on effect. The lack of money or care leads to something else, which leads to something else, and all the small little somethings snowball together into a large impact.