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Incest. Possible trigger warning.

38 replies

PippaGrace · 08/07/2021 10:38

Name changed for this.

I’m not quite sure what I’m hoping to gain from this thread. I just need to get this out and gain some perspective. Things have happened recently with my mother that have really made me take a step back and reevaluate my entire relationship with her and the rest of my family. It has stirred up a lot of old hurt.

My mother walked out on us when I was 16. My younger sister ran away a few months later to join her. My mother was so wrapped up in herself and her newfound freedom as a single woman that she didn’t take care of my sister as well as she should’ve. My sister was 15. My uncle lived near my mum. We never really knew him very well as kids. He was in his forties. He was a popular man, handsome, charming, exciting and well off. A real pillar of his community. My sister started spending a lot of time with him. He rode off-road motorbikes and went out partying most nights. The life he lead was very appealing to my sister. She started spending a lot of time with him. Within a few months she was practically living with him. My mother allowed this. She didn’t see anything wrong with the arrangement.

My sister and my uncle started sleeping together when she was 15 years old. They practically lived together. They were inseparable. He spoiled her, bought her expensive gifts. Let her do drugs like crack, cocaine and acid. This went on for three years. My mother ignored everyone who tried to tell her that something wasn’t right. That this relationship wasn’t normal. My mother turned a blind eye and did absolutely nothing to stop it. He was paying for everything for my sister. Even her private school fees. My mother denies it but I know she knew. How could she not know? She just didn’t want to lose the financial support that he offered by taking care of my sister.

My sister admitted to all of it when she was 18 years old. My mother did nothing. She stopped speaking to my uncle but that was about it. No police involvement. No consequences.

A few years later my mother and my uncle started speaking again. She says she decided to forgive him and move on from it. She even allowed him to walk her down the aisle when she married my step father. Suddenly she started saying that my uncle and my sister were in a loving relationship. There was nothing wrong with it because it was true love. The rest of the family felt the same way. His siblings and mother (my uncles and grandmother)

My uncle got cancer in 2019. He died later that year. My mother nursed him and never left his side. After he died she told my sister that she blames her for his death. She says that he never got over her and that is what made him ill. When he died he was married with a young child. The wife never knew about his relationship with my sister. She still doesn’t.

My mother has his pictures all over her house. She wears his jumpers almost every day. She talks about him constantly. When he died hundreds of people posted tributes to him and mourned him. He was very much loved in his community. No one knew what he really was.

My sister is a shell of a human being. She has developed a personality disorder. She is an alcoholic. She has such terrible anxiety that she doesn’t leave the house. She can’t work. She is broken. But.. she is extremely close to my mother. She even lives with her.

I can’t get my head around any of it. In my mind this was grooming. Abuse. Incest. Statutory rape. It was, wasn’t it? My mother and I can’t have a relationship because of it. She says it was true love and it wasn’t wrong. She says people can’t help who they fall in love with.

This is fucked up isn’t it? Please tell me that I’m right to feel this way. That this is enough to cut my mother out of my life. It has caused so much hurt in my family and the rest of us can’t seem to let it go. The rest of us siblings are constantly having to pick up the pieces of my sister’s broken life while she sits there mourning him as if he were some sort of saint. My biggest regret is not making sure he was punished for what he did. I am 34 years old now. I appreciate that this was a long time ago but it’s all resurfaced again since his death.

OP posts:
RickiTarr · 08/07/2021 10:45

That is incredibly fucked up and you are quite right to feel as you do. Trauma doesn’t have a fast timeline so it isn’t really that long to attempt to process something so massive.

At least you have the emotional intelligence to know which way is up, which is something. I am so sorry, though, it all sounds horribly hard. Flowers

RickiTarr · 08/07/2021 10:51

Have you thought about having therapy yourself? It’s a lot to work through, especially when relatives are still gaslighting.

romdowa · 08/07/2021 10:57

Your mother and her family are sick. It is 100% inappropriate for your uncle to have engaged in a sexual relationship with your 15 year old sister and your mother and her family to have covered it up. It was rape, incest , abuse and you are 100% right to never speak to any of them ever again. It probably wasn't the first time your uncle had sexually abused someone like that, especially since his family seem to be OK with it.

Redwinestillfine · 08/07/2021 11:21

Can you remove your sister from the situation and get her some therapy op? Could she live with you?

Eviethyme · 08/07/2021 11:25

Inappropriate she was a child and family and just giving drugs to a child is bad enough

chickenyhead · 08/07/2021 11:30

Your mother is the lowest form of life.

Notsandwiches · 08/07/2021 11:33

That's grim. I don't think I could be around anyone who thought that was ok. In no reality would I let my brother have a sexual relationship with either of my daughters. Please get some help and put as much distance as you can between yourself and your toxic mother. She is justifying this in her own head because she doesnt want to accept the reality of what she's actually done.

Pbbananabagel · 08/07/2021 11:33

Jesus Christ. Your sister needs an intervention, she will never be well whilst she lives in that environment with that woman. Your mother and family will never acknowledge the wrong here as it would mean taking responsibility and accepting that they were complicit.

MuckyPlucky · 08/07/2021 11:34

I echo what above posters have said, and indeed what you’ve said. This was definitely a case of grooming, incest, abuse, statutory rape….And also of neglect and facilitation of abuse on your mothers part, which I’m sure is what’s causing this staunch response from her. She’s trying to squash down her gnawing feelings of responsibility & self-blame, because I’m sure somewhere deep inside she’s aware of her complicity, and is trying to re-write history and absolve herself of any blame.

From how you describe her over-the-top mourning and grief at his death, I do wonder if there was a sexual history there between him and her (perhaps when much younger?). It would explain how she was able to ‘normalise’ the incest as being a “love match” if she’s already experienced this in her own life. Most people couldn’t even conceive of thinking along those lines, so perhaps this is indicative of her having internalised & normalised the idea that incest can be explained away as romantic love? It would also explain some of her grieving behaviours which seem more like the grieving of a spouse (the wearing of his clothes, the photos everywhere etc).

Sorry, I don’t have much actual advice. But you have my sympathies and so does your sister. Have you explored with her going to the police? Obviously they can’t charge your deceased uncle but it might give you both some peace of mind to have it validated that is WAS a criminal act of abuse/rape/grooming. And they may wish to look into your mum’s part in it, or at least speak to her, which might help to drive home to her that this was a terrible crime against her daughter and she should be ashamed of her own actions at the time and her stance towards you both since.

RickiTarr · 08/07/2021 11:36

From how you describe her over-the-top mourning and grief at his death, I do wonder if there was a sexual history there between him and her (perhaps when much younger?). It would explain how she was able to ‘normalise’ the incest as being a “love match” if she’s already experienced this in her own life. Most people couldn’t even conceive of thinking along those lines, so perhaps this is indicative of her having internalised & normalised the idea that incest can be explained away as romantic love? It would also explain some of her grieving behaviours which seem more like the grieving of a spouse (the wearing of his clothes, the photos everywhere etc).

I have to say, grim as it is, that possibility crossed my mind too.

Sunnyday321 · 08/07/2021 11:38

I'm sorry for your sister , and of course you having these negative ( justified ) feelings towards your mum. At the time your mother was wrapped up in her own life and prepared to turn a blind eye at the behaviour of her brother, and the lack of duty of care to your sister . Yes this was very wrong of her to allow this . Wrong and illegal.
Believe it or not it is not illegal if the younger person is over 18 . What is shocking that you can even marry ! Shocking.
However , your sister was underage so it is wrong.

Ozanj · 08/07/2021 11:38

You need to consider that maybe your DM was abused by him too.

CrisisManagement · 08/07/2021 11:39

You are 100% right. Your mother is an idiot and your sister needs to get out of her house. Will your sister listen to you?

QueeniesCroft · 08/07/2021 11:45

I'm so sorry. Your mother is so, so wrong, and I'm not at all surprised that you are struggling with this.
I simply cannot imagine looking at my brother and thinking that it would be totally fine for him to have sex with my 15-year-old daughter. The mental gymnastics required to twist that into any kind of normal, healthy relationship are just beyond me.

chickenyhead · 08/07/2021 11:46

@Ozanj

You need to consider that maybe your DM was abused by him too.
No you don't need to consider this at all.

Let's not give sympathy to an abuser eh?

Whatever happened in her childhood, she chose to have children. She then clearly chose to let one be abused and rewrote history to try to assuage her guilt. Now she is behaving like a love sick idiot over the man who abused her emotionally disturbed daughter, rubbing salt in to those wounds daily.

Let's not try to see this person as a poor little victim rather than someone actively choosing to behave this way. She is vile and deserves complete contempt.

chickenyhead · 08/07/2021 11:47

If she did suffer abuse by him, it is WORSE, because she CHOSE to expose her innocent daughter to the same. Knowing the impact it would have.

Sick.

Sunnyday321 · 08/07/2021 11:49

I apologise for my above post , I've checked and it is not legal to marry an uncle in uk. Thank goodness for that !

Who can you not marry in the UK?
In the UK you are not allowed to marry:

Your child, including an adopted child.
Either of your parents, including an adoptive parent.
You siblings, including half-siblings.
You aunt or uncle, including a half-uncle or half-aunt.
Your grandparents.
Your grandchildren.
You half-niece or half-nephew.

Figgygal · 08/07/2021 11:49

Soooo fucked up
Your poor sister

RickiTarr · 08/07/2021 11:49

No you don't need to consider this at all.

Let's not give sympathy to an abuser eh?

It’s not about sympathy, it’s about making sense of what’s happened to cause a completely dysfunctional family dynamic. Once you understand it, it feels a bit easier.

In a scenario in which OP’s mum was abused, that doesn’t excuse her later parenting choices at all.

chickenyhead · 08/07/2021 11:52

@RickiTarr

No you don't need to consider this at all.

Let's not give sympathy to an abuser eh?

It’s not about sympathy, it’s about making sense of what’s happened to cause a completely dysfunctional family dynamic. Once you understand it, it feels a bit easier.

In a scenario in which OP’s mum was abused, that doesn’t excuse her later parenting choices at all.

It actually has the effect of dismissing the voluntary actions of the abuser.

My rapist was raped when he was young, aaaahhhhhhh poor thing. No. Bellshill. It is a choice to abuse. You don't trip in to it.

RickiTarr · 08/07/2021 11:54

I don’t think it dismisses or excuses anything, but we don’t even know if it’s the case, just a thought to consider.

Patapouf · 08/07/2021 12:02

What an awful awful mess of a situation.

Your mum is utterly culpable in the abuse of your sister, she enabled it. How anyone could think that situation was normal or ok I don't know.

I hope your sister gets some help.

beigebrownblue · 08/07/2021 12:10

I'm so sorry this happened.

It can be very hard to put boundaries in place in birth families in order to protect yourself and others from abuse. Primary abuse what happened to your sister, and then what they call secondary abuse, which is what your mother did to your sister.

In the long run, you might be facing cutting off contact with the abusers and its possible that your sister might choose to do this also.

There are many many different reasons why people become estranged from birth family members and abuse is one of them.

It is not an easy road to travel and difficult also now as much of therapy is only available onlilne.

There are support groups for people estranged from family members.

One of them is called 'Stand Alone' see www.standalone.org

They have podcasts on their website.

Without wishing to sound patronising I would agree with others who have said you have done well keeping your head screwed on with all this. It is so difficult sometimes to see through family dynamics that are dysfunctional.

Hoping you find something happier for yourself and your sister. It will take time but as someone said

'you don't go to hell and come back empty handed'...

meaning that there is life and a future after such terrible suffering.

DeadButDelicious · 08/07/2021 12:10

Wow. Your poor sister. The first thought that popped in to my head when you mentioned your mums grief and rewriting of history, is that he had abused her too. Not that that excuses her. She knew what he was capable of and practically gift wrapped her 15 year old daughter for him. That was her choice and something she will have to live with.

It's a terrible situation all round. It definitely sounds like your sister needs to get away from her and get therapy to deal with what was done to her.

PippaGrace · 08/07/2021 12:12

Thank you all for your responses. They’ve actually made me cry. To just be able to get it all off my chest and have complete strangers validate my feelings has been incredibly cathartic. Thank you.

My sister has lived with me on and off over the years but it always ends badly. She has BPD and can be incredibly hostile and violent. I have children that I need to consider too. I really think she’d benefit from inpatient treatment but she just refuses. We have tried to help her but her illness makes her very difficult to be around sometimes. As much as we love her there is only so much we can handle. As a family we have paid for private psychiatrists and have offered to pay for inpatient treatment. My mother always manages to talk her out of it and turns her against us.

It is all such a mess.

OP posts:
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