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To those who voted for Brexit

351 replies

HappyClappy1 · 29/06/2021 20:19

Are you happy with your decision?

OP posts:
Theworldisfullofgs · 30/06/2021 20:18

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously
i also don't think that Labour put country ahead of party - look at all the infighting

The Torys do that to they just don't do it in public.

But I think you'd be hard put to say the Torys put the country ahead of the party. The referendum was about tory party in fighting and will probably bring about the end of the union.

Also their propensity to splash tax payers cash on contracts for mates rather than kids , even going so far as to change the school census day so they could pretend the data isn't as bad as it is, doesn't give me any confidence that they give a toss about anything other than keeping the Tory party in power.

thegcatsmother · 30/06/2021 20:20

hey I'm just saying what I see. I am not respectful of your views or your choices, and I am not respectful of what you and people like you have done to the rest of us. I am angry and I see no reason to give you any respect; you don't deserve my respect.

Then there is little point in talking to you is there? You expect Leavers to respect your choice. Why? What quantifies 'people like you'? Dh and I are both postgrads who have done our research and voted Leave.

I noted Leave, and said so outside MN loudly, which was very amusing as I was living in Brussels (where dh was working) at the time. He was not, I hasten to add, working for the EU. He had been there and done that, which is what drove our vote to leave, having seen it up close and personal. We were not the only ones.

The EU is not about trying to make life better for the average citizen; it is about aggrandisement; it is about the Acquis and the ratchet that once the EU has claimed a right/made a law/acquired a power or a competence, it does not let it go. Ever.

It is about the concentration of power into the hands of a very small cabal of people, whom we do not have the power to vote out.

It is about the direction of travel and the slow death of the nation state within the suffocating embrace of the EU.

My time in Belgium was educational, and yes, some things there are better than here, and some things are worse. I wouldn't say that the UK is badly run; there were things in Belgium that raised my eyebrows sky high and had me giving thanks that we don't do them here. The difference to me is that in the UK I can do whatever I want as long as it is not specifically prohibited. In Belgium, and other European nations, you can only do what is specifically permitted. It's a subtle difference, but it is there, along with the need to carry your ID card with you every time you left the house there, but being able to go for a walk with no documentation or money here.

thecatsatonthewall · 30/06/2021 20:29

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I won't vote for any party which refuses to acknowledge biological reality.

I don't care if Labour are pro EU - that's their prerogative. But once the nation decided, that ought to have been it. No trying to wrangle out of it. I also don't think that Labour put country ahead of party - look at all the infighting

Its the tories that have wanted to make changes to the GRA, not Labour.

Labour don't want to rejoin, thats an impossibility in anycase but they would have a more realistic relationship with the EU, one that would be more co operative rather than confrantational.

As to the PP who lived in Brussels - we are heading for ID cards, which is a good thing.
Can't speak for Belgium but i found France a lot more freedom respecting than the UK, which seems to be quite restrictive (pre CV) plus less corrupt, especially planning and local Government.

Lemonmelonsun · 30/06/2021 20:34

Gcat, I've found on mn and in rl that people are entrenched in their views and don't care about some of the wider issues.

One person has a business which has suffered due to import costs and customs and whilst I don't want anyone to suffer, this person lives in a mansion so it's harder to summon sympathy and its side business brought for her by her extremely successful dh.

I look at that and think of the girls trafficked all over the eu in a criminals paradise with no border checks.

thecatsatonthewall · 30/06/2021 20:38

The EU is not about trying to make life better for the average citizen; it is about aggrandisement; it is about the Acquis and the ratchet that once the EU has claimed a right/made a law/acquired a power or a competence, it does not let it go. Ever

You think UK Governments govern for us? let go of laws? they introduce 100s each year and never rescind the old ones.

It is about the concentration of power into the hands of a very small cabal of people, whom we do not have the power to vote out

Member states have to approve these laws & have veto's for almost all of them.
The UK had opt outs for most of them!

As we vote in national governments and they in turn appt the EU commissioners and MEPs by public vote, there is plenty of representation, we also voted in pro EU governments for over 40 years and even when given a choice still chose the EU.

Doubtless you ve settled in the UK, and also you ve seen the the amount of new housing and lack of infrastructure, yet you have zero say.

thecatsatonthewall · 30/06/2021 20:42

I look at that and think of the girls trafficked all over the eu in a criminals paradise with no border checks

Yet so many end up here in the UK, with plenty of border controls & how is leaving Europol going to make things better?

And if we really shut down our borders, that doesn't helpt the poor women and children trafficked.

More centralised policing would help with this, as greater share of information.

Theworldisfullofgs · 30/06/2021 20:58

news.trust.org/item/20201204122813-jyg76

Generally, the view is that the UK leaving will make trafficking issues worse. We were a top 5 country for this in 2016.

ahoyshipmates · 30/06/2021 23:29

[quote MarshmallowSwede]@Littleoakhorn

Yes. If I had known just how poorly run it was then I would have never even been ok with us coming here.

But my husband and I had visited London before so we knew the UK and we were perhaps foolish on believing it would be easy. I’m surprised we lasted this long because almost immediately my husband was unhappy. “This wouldn’t happen in Sweden” was almost daily. I told him well we are not in Sweden we have to accept this is how things are here.

I’m not saying Sweden is perfect, but we do have a very well run and governed land I believe. I still can’t believe how chaotic it is here. But Brits don’t see it because they don’t really see how other nations are run.

There have been so many things here with how things are run that my husband and I are really looking at one another saying this would not happen in Sweden. And we are really shocked how no one complains here.
So all in all we are happy to be going home. I’ve enjoyed some parts of being here. But I will feel more relaxed when we are back home.[/quote]
If you would be able to provide examples of some of these differences, it would be very interesting.

user1471519931 · 30/06/2021 23:44

For all the people saying that are so glad of Brexit because of "sovereignty "...aye, what do you think Scotland is making of that?!

thegcatsmother · 01/07/2021 07:17

Thecatsat Vetos are rapidly disappearing, do keep up. QMV has replaced a lot of vetos.

I am not convinced that ID cards are a good thing. I needed it to buy anything at the Apotheek, to do official things, even at the bank. More and more information was loaded on as the aim was for the ID card to have health records, be a travel document etc. Not keen on that personally.

thecatsatonthewall · 01/07/2021 07:55

@thegcatsmother

Thecatsat Vetos are rapidly disappearing, do keep up. QMV has replaced a lot of vetos.

I am not convinced that ID cards are a good thing. I needed it to buy anything at the Apotheek, to do official things, even at the bank. More and more information was loaded on as the aim was for the ID card to have health records, be a travel document etc. Not keen on that personally.

QMV was first introduced in 2001 but the UK kept its veto on many issues, this small point seems to have passed you by.

Whether your keen on them or not, ID cards are coming, via the app for vaccination status but as we see with Malta, not being more cooperative with the EU isn't a great idea.
They asked if we wanted to be part of their VP scheme and we said no.

ID cards would also help the fight against crime and trafficking, which we seem, despite the modern slavery bill, unable or unwilling, to do anything about.

Seasidemumma77 · 01/07/2021 08:21

Without the benefit of being able to compare (through parallel universes) it is impossible to know truly what impact Brexit has had. To accurately know you'd have to compare: a world which was only impacted by Brexit, a world with no Brexit, a world with brexit and a global pandemic, and a world with no brexit and a global pandemic.

gillianwalmsley · 01/07/2021 09:18

More than 1,600 jobs as Nissan to build new electric model and huge battery plant in UK:

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/nissan-jobs-uk-battery-plant-b1876062.html

So much for 'project fear'.

Sanguinesuzy · 01/07/2021 09:44

@gillianwalmsley we could have done it anyway. Brexit or not.
We haven't had checks on goods from the EU enforced yet because we haven't got the infrastructure sorted out whereas the EU has. Once that starts no doubt there will be issues.

MarshaBradyo · 01/07/2021 09:46

I voted remain but I’m glad it hasn’t been as bad as some thought, maybe I thought I don’t know I knew back then to vote remain but more than ready to move on and try and be positive

gillianwalmsley · 01/07/2021 09:48

[quote Sanguinesuzy]@gillianwalmsley we could have done it anyway. Brexit or not.
We haven't had checks on goods from the EU enforced yet because we haven't got the infrastructure sorted out whereas the EU has. Once that starts no doubt there will be issues.[/quote]
You misunderstand why I posted that 'news' about Nissan.

There were predictions (warnings/threats) that if Brexit occurred Nissan would leave the UK, which would have been devastating for the North East, but this report would suggest that prediction was erroneous.

Sanguinesuzy · 01/07/2021 10:51

The government offered a hefty bribe to Nissan to stay. Nissan as an organisation felt it was a bad move to leave the EU. We've barely been out 2 years. With Covid and the pushing forward of so many issues into the future like the Irish sausage war it's impossible to disentangle everything. So we aren't out of the woods yet and for some to say 'it's not as bad as I thought' is clearly a bit premature.

Theworldisfullofgs · 01/07/2021 12:07

£100 m to Nossan is a hefty bribe plus the infrastructure costs that the taxpayer is also paying.

Theworldisfullofgs · 01/07/2021 12:07

*Nissan

Lampzade · 01/07/2021 12:09

@WhyMrsRobinson

Well, I’ve had to come back from abroad where I was looking after my mum who retired abroad 30 years ago. Thanks to brexit she is now in a home. Thanks to brexit, I can’t send parcels because of the insane customs regs. Thanks to brexit if I choose to stay abroad I will have to pay 5 k import tax on my car that I previously could just drive across no bother. I also have to get health insurance that was covered before. My children can no longer look for jobs abroad, even though they have endless fiends on the internet, the world is getting smaller, yet we are deliberately cutting ourselves off. Also, it’s been 6 months. Not long enough for disaster yet, and what exactly is happening behind ooh covid? I know the tuc is fighting for workers rights because, guess what? We had some thanks to Europe, and now we have none. What and how has beprexit actually benefitted us? Thank goodness all those nasty Turks won’t get chance to flood our shores and steal our jobs. We can get our beef from Australia too, yum, 6 months stored in cold rooms in gas. so much better for the world. Grrrrrrrrr.
Absobloodylutely
Lampzade · 01/07/2021 12:19

I really wish there were benefits to Brexit, I really do. However , at the moment I see zero benefit to leaving the EU. As others have said, COVID has masked some of the effects of Brexit. We will see the adverse effects of Brexit in the none too distant future

lifeturnsonadime · 01/07/2021 12:50

@toooldandtired

Do you have a citation for your assertion that EU employment laws derive from UK law?

It is in fact the other way round. Many UK laws, the Working Time Regulations and discrimination laws being examples derive from EU Directives. The UK now has a carte blanche to ignore those directives and reduce protections for UK employees in favour of organisations who want to increase profits.

I think these circular arguments are completely pointless for what its worth. We've left and have to get on with it.

lockef · 01/07/2021 13:07

I can't see any benefits at all.

Possibly we got more vaccines than we might have done if we were part of the EU still - but I don't think we will ever know the truth of that.

Covid has taken the blame for a lot of the supply disruptions and price rises which are infact Brexit related.

I am fully aware of the downsides of Brexit - that and combined with a Tory government I can only see this country going backward

thecatsatonthewall · 01/07/2021 13:20

@MarshaBradyo

I voted remain but I’m glad it hasn’t been as bad as some thought, maybe I thought I don’t know I knew back then to vote remain but more than ready to move on and try and be positive
Agree, whatever will happen in the future, one thing is certain, we wont be rejoining, waste of time looking back.

So all we can do is try and negotiate to rejoin the bits that benefit us, even if it means some loss - we have already - Horizon. But there is much more to do, NIP for starters, Financial Services, FOM, qualifications equivalence

Then if/when tourism gets back to normal, pet passports, roaming charges, insurance.

Hopefully, with a charge of govt, we could re join EFTA, it would solve a hell of a lot of problems.

Doublestar · 01/07/2021 13:33

MarshmallowSwede

I have Swedish friends who are a mixed race couple (she's white, he's Asian) and they are very happy and settled here and say they have no plans to return to Sweden.

So maybe it's just you?

My voting for brexit had nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with wanting us as a country to have the freedom to make our own decisions and not have to jump through hoops or beg for Angela merkels & macrons permission every time we need to change something that isn't working for us as a country.

Time will tell if I made the right decision or not but at the moment I'm happy with my decision and the country has not ground to a halt with people starving on the streets as was predicted by the doom-mongerers.