Adult social care help please

[Knackeredneon]

Not sure where to post this and slightly posting for traffic. Please be gentle as I'm at the end of my tether with this.

I'm trying to support my grandparents (mid 80s) and in failing health. My mum, their daughter is now an only child so it's also about helping her navigate stuff.

I arranged an adult social care assessment today for them which my mum attended. They're not really able to keep their home clean anymore and struggle with cooking. We help as much as we can but it's a lot.

My grandma also need help with personal care and my grandad does this. She doesn't want someone coming on to do it at this point (that's a separate battle)

During the appointment the person from ss / the council said that if the main help they needed or wanted was with keeping their home clean (and therfore safe) that would always have to be paid for.

This doesn't seem right to me as if for example there was an elderly person who had personal care and had a carer coming in
the carer would say help them wash and get up and eat, yet would have them live in dirt as if you can't wash yourself you wouldn't be able to clean your home.so a blanket approach of social care doesn't provide cleaning seems bonkers.

I feel like their being fobbed off and don't know where to turn. Does anyone know anything about social care providing help with cleaning? Or where I can get advice from as the council themselves seem out to give the least support possible. Thanks.

Ask for this to be transferred to the Elderly Parents section OP

Hi op, I'm a senior director for a care firm and we come across this constantly. We deal with Direct Payments, socially funded dom care and privately funded. If you ask for direct payments you will be able to choose which care company you go with and can ask for cleaning to be incorporated into your care package, we do it for our clients because despite what SS says we would never see our clients living in an unsanitary environment. It's unethical to say the least and there is always time to run a duster round or mop a floor. It does depend where you live of course but with direct payments the decisions will be for your grandparents to make about how they receive their care.

I know my council won't help with this. Literally they give a card for "recommended" cleaners to people. I've issues myself and have found everything they confirmed I needed help with could "simply" be paid for by credit card/bank loan from various "recommended" (and very expensive) companies.

For example, I knew I needed a kettle tipper to help me make a cup of tea. All they did was give me a catalogue and say to go buy one. I needed help getting out of bed, again catalogue and told what to buy and that it needed to be professionally installed so even more money. I couldn't afford these and got labelled as failing to engage.

Carer wise in terms of someone coming in keeping a person clean is complicated as obviously it'd be that persons place of work so there's conditions that need to be met and then there's a conflict. However, in my case I no longer trust people so the care needs I have go unmet so this isn't something I've personally experienced but I know others have. Also applies to things like keeping a place warm too.

I work in adult social care. When assessing your grandparents the worker should have been considering all the domains of the care act - these domains include personal hygiene, dressing and continence but also includes maintaining a habitable home.

All domains have equal weighting and if the domain not being met impacts on your grandparents wellbeing then support could be offered. An assessor should not ignore help for cleaning but this does often happen sadly.

If you can it might be worth googling the care act and having a read of it.

HTH.

Do come across to the elderly parent board.
I think the assessor is right- good advice from age uk on their website.

I'm surprised at this. I've seen many care packages that incorporate extra time once a week for cleaning. However it may depend on the local authority. However if it's purely for cleaning then you may struggle as most care packages need to incorporate more than one element . If your grandmother has capacity then she can't be "forced " to accept care.
Age UK is a fantastic resource and I would recommended given them a call for advice. They coordinate a lot of services

This page is helpful www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/arranging-care/homecare/

Could you help them apply for attendance allowance to help with coats?

She definitely has capacity!

So @RicherThanYew
The scenario I described with a person getting personal care. Would the council be actually advocating on this situation that the person wouldn't het help with cleaning? It's great your service wouldn't have this happen. But honestly I find it quite shocking this could be their policy.

@Becca19962014 that's a good point about the place of work being clean or meeting h&s requirements. I think as she's not wanting personal care this isn't a consideration right now. Tjeyr6are mainly on state pension so I'm not sure how they can be expected to pay for a cleaner. I wonder if it's just expected they will go into a home? And actually there's not adequate support to keep people in their homes (as a moral question I don't even know how I feel about this as a county we only have so much money, but not sure th only option for decent care should be a care home)

@EssaysOfElia I have some experience working with learning disabilities services years ago when I first left uni. But the landscape seems really different in older people's care tbh. From what you are saying I'm really not sure they have equal weight to maintaining a clean home.

Thanks for all of the other replies. I'm not doing well with my health right now and I'm actually surprised (god knows why) how much this is having an impact. One thing I have learned is the adult social care system is a mess. It honestly frightens me fory parents and myself getting older.

Storey I'm a bit all over...

I meant to say in my reply to @Becca19962014... Just being expected to pay for everything is crap. Especially if you don't have the money. And I'm really sorry to hear your care needs aren't being met.

Can you get any support from an advocacy charity?

Unfortunately no advocacy available as my needs are physical and mental. It's complicated. They certainly don't want me in a care home, but have no idea how limiting being on benefits can be with multiple needs.

My point is it sadly varies massively from area to area.

Also the carers association can offer support for carers.
Attendance allowance could fund help- get expert help from age uk or cab to complete.can be used for cleaners, taxis etc

Agree….seek out your local Carer’s organisation for advice.

@harridan50

But basically you want a cleaner not actually any care

Wow you sound lovely. I honestly can't imagine what kind of person you are or life you are living to leave a bitch comment on someone's post asking for help re adult social care. How sad.

She needs personal care, but my grandad does it. If he wasn't there she'd have to have carers. She can't shop, cook, clean, get the bus, walk more than a few steps do any hobbies or see friends. But yeah she wants a cleaner or I just want a cleaner for them. I'm embarrassed for you at commenting this.

Actually it's not just embarrasment @harridan50 it's pity I feel for you.

In my area, for people with basic needs like your relatives, Adult social care can provide home care up to 4 x daily for personal care (washing, toileting, assisting in and out of bed, prompting for medications, heating up a ready meal, preparing snacks and drinks and washing up) some agencies may add a small amount of cleaning. This care may require a contribution or the full cost paying. Care depends on availability in your area which can be challenging in rural communities. There may also be a set up fee. The alternative is to find and pay for private care.

Adult Social care can also assess for aids and equipment to maintain safety and independence in the home.

Cleaning is provided by private companies and paid for. Attendance allowance (if eligible) can help offset this cost

Getting a cleaner in can be a great way to introduce carers especially if it’s someone who also does caring😉.
OP, please look after yourself.

@Baycitystroller

Agree….seek out your local Carer’s organisation for advice.

That's a really good suggestion thanks. I never thought of it from a carer point of view. But actually my mum and my grandad (and me a little bit) are providing care. I always think if a carer as somone who is looking after somone 24/7. But actually it's more hours a week for my my than she does in her job. So still a good chunk if her time.

I can also recommend disability law service for advice (yes they're trying to help me but it's complicated as very limited with my finances). They cover all the uk as things vary legally across England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland.

Sadly it doesn't seem to be there, my Dad paid for a cleaner once a week, just to make things that bit easier for him while caring for my mum.

Money for care is tight.
Your grandad does the care currently, the council will be happy with that as it is the cheapest option. Frankly they will probably be happy with that until he keels over.
Food, councils pay carers to pop in and reheat a ready meal. It is not great.
Almost everyone has to contribute towards their own care. A cleaner costs £20 pounds a week or so. This is probably below the limit where the council have to get involved.

They will be allowed to fester at home long before they are considered for a home. Homes are normally only considered for end of life care.

Better to sit down with your mum, work out as big a care package as you can think of and ask for that. The council will trim it down but hopefully the end result will improve life for your grandparents.

Social care is hash, inadequate and under funded.

I suppose it just feels a bit nonsensical that maintaining nutrition and personal hygiene is in the acceptable list of things which are paid for but maintaining a clean home and clothes is in the not allowable and therfore not paid for list. I suppose you'd die more quickly without food or personal hygiene. But really it's not like the home has no impact on health and wellbeing.

As I say if an older person was on a low income say state pension and has personal care they seem to be either expected to live in dirt or pay for cleaning which they can't afford. So therefore live in dirt.

It's not about them not wanting to do it. It's about them not being able to. Which to me feels like a social care need. But obviously I know shit all! Or just have a different view of what is or isn't acceptable.

The eligibility criteria for social care are that the adult has needs as a result of physical or mental impairment or illness, is unable to achieve two or more outcomes listed below and as a result of not being able to meet those outcomes there would be a significant impact on their wellbeing.

The eligibility outcomes are:

Managing and maintaining nutrition

Maintaining personal hygiene

Managing toilet needs

Being appropriately clothed

Being able to make use of the adult's home safely

Maintaining a habitable home environment

Developing and maintaining family or other personal relationship

Accessing and engaging in work, training, education or volunteering

Making use of necessary facilities or services in the local community, including public transport, and recreational facilities or services

Carrying out any caring responsibilities the adult has for a child

The assessment should consider your grandmother’s needs in their entirety, regardless of what support your grandfather is willing to provide. Only once they’ve assessed needs and considered eligibility can they begin to look at whether he is willing to meet them. The council is not required to meet needs which he is willing and able to meet. But he would also be entitled to an assessment as a carer.

@FlorencenotRatchet

I'm surprised at this. I've seen many care packages that incorporate extra time once a week for cleaning. However it may depend on the local authority. However if it's purely for cleaning then you may struggle as most care packages need to incorporate more than one element . If your grandmother has capacity then she can't be "forced " to accept care. Age UK is a fantastic resource and I would recommended given them a call for advice. They coordinate a lot of services

Yes they often will incorporate it as part of a larger package of care, but adult social care generally won't just commission cleaning as the only service unless there is a really good reason (e.g hoarding, environmental risk to others etc)

The reason for this is mostly because if you only want a cleaner (even if you have other needs too) you are probably better off just employing a proper cleaner rather than having a care agency send out a domiciliary carer commissioned by the local authority to do a half arsed job of cleaning and potentially you get charged both a care rate (which is probably far more than a cleaner's rates) and possibly an arrangement fee by the local authority too on top.