My daughter is being bullied at work, it's so hard to know what to do!

[Wisteriabloom]

She's 21, (but a YOUNG 21 if you know what I mean). She's quiet and shy, still lives at home and isn't really into large groups and drinking (prefers the theatre, art galleries etc), and has a small group of close friends.

She did well to get this job just under a year ago (admin & call centre role). Problem is, the lady who's supposed to be training her hasn't really bothered to. She doesn't explain things properly, then snaps at dd if she gets something wrong (and makes fun of her if she asks a question)☹

The others in the team (mainly women in their mid to late 20's also mock dd, making fun of her voice, mannerisms etc). Dd's quite nervous anyway, and this makes her more so. She has a boyfriend (same building but different department) a really nice lad, a few years older than her.

If he passes through the office and stops to chat to dd, or they have lunch together these women are awful, laughing loudly, mocking their interactions and one of them even asked dd what he's like in bed, causing poor dd to blush and the office to erupt in hysterics!☹

She's polite, punctual, dresses smartly and has put everything into this job, but it's causing her sleepless nights and brought on so much anxiety, she's almost a shadow of her former self☹

She said if she goes to the Personnel Department for help it could make things worse, as this woman has been with the company years and everyone looks up to her. She wants to hand her notice in, but it's good money and it could take a while to find another job.

I'm very tempted to contact Personnel myself for her, but it's hardly a case of 'having a word with the teacher at school'. She's an adult, and I'd hate to cause her more suffering from these bullies. You'd think women of that age would have outgrown school bullying behaviour, but sadly not☹

Any advice would be welcome!

She already knows what she wants, you have said in your op she wants to hand her notice in. She could look for some work in fast food or retail so she has something to go to immediately then hand her notice in if she doesn’t feel able to talk to HR. It’s my experience that jobs with toxic environments are really difficult to change even if you complain.

Absolutely do not speak to her work for her. She is 21 years old and needs to sort these things for herself. Offer some advice if you want then take a step back. It doesn’t really matter if she is ‘young’ for her age, you learn to deal with things by dealing with them.

By the way I’m not saying she shouldn’t complain, she absolutely should if she feels able - this type of behaviour continues because people feel too intimidated to complain. But even if she does I would be looking to leave because companies with this type of behaviour don’t tend to change.

She needs to start keeping notes. Not verbatim, just dates and a brief summary.

With her evidence she needs to go to her Line Manager or HR.

Call centres have very high turnover rates, these women could well be a contributing factor. Recruitment is expensive and time consuming. That will not go over well.

Also, employees that do leave where management have not intervened in a bullying culture tend to write very open reviews on sites like Glassdoor, which puts other job seekers off applying.

Agree with PP about mirroring back what is said as a question. Often the best and quickest way to stop this sort of behaviour without putting yourself in the firing line (you are only repeating their words - so they cannot complain about you) She just needs to stay super polite. It also means she doesn't need to think of anything witty or clever to say (which can be difficult if you are feeling anxious and bullied).

So
Bully: "Why are you doing the form that way?That is wrong!" DD:"Oh, is it wrong - please can you explain?"

Bully "I haven't got time to show you how to do that" DD "You haven't got time to show me?...Can you tell me when will you have time please?"
Bully (mocking)""Can you tell me when you will have time please?" DD "Yes, that is what I said. Why are you repeating it?"
Bully (mocking) "Thank you for your time Mrs Smith...wow you sounded so posh talking there...who are you the queen?" DD "What do you mean? The queen?"
Bully(re boyfriend) "Phoar...I bet he's looking forward to getting you in the back of his car tonight" DD "The back of his car? Can you explain why you said that?" Bully "Are you thick...what do you think" DD "But why did you say it?"

So questioning the bully on stuff. Pollitely. No agro? Just repetitive "why?" Why are you saying it - the mocking stuff, the unhelpful stuff. Parrot it back to her. Bully cannot tell you off for asking for clarification. Bully will not like her nastiness being highlighted to her (especially in front of other people) but DD will have done nothing wrong.

It works remarkably quickly - letting the bully know that your DD will no longer be a pushover. You only need to push back a little at people like this and then tend to crumble.

(And in the meantime YY to pp - she should make a note/diary of stuff said and done so if she does go to HR about it she has a detailed, timed log - which will make for an easier conversation than "Bully says horrid stuff...cannot remember what".

This wouldn't be for a well known national telecoms company would it?

Line manager and if no joy, HR. And consider moving on, call centres aren't for everyone.

WTF99 - Yes, there is a line manager, who the supervisor & her team report to. DD said her office door is normally shut and she's always busy! I suggested DD writes a note, with a brief explanation of what she's experiencing, adding that she'd appreciate a proper chat at some point this week. DD is going to do that tonight. She will knock on her door and give it to her tomorrow. (I really hope she does)!

Yes there is a grievance policy, which suggests line manager should be first point of contact.

Role play is a good idea, I'll see if she thinks it would be helpful. She does seem worried about ending up with no job! I've said we'll support her no matter what, and if she leaves this job it will be through no fault of her own, so she shouldn't have trouble finding a new one.

DH is concerned too, but gets back from work later in the evening than me, so rarely sees how upset DD is when she comes through the door. He's of the opinion that this sort of stuff does happen in workplaces, and although it's awful for her now, if she manages to sort it she'll feel more able to tackle problems in future.

I can't stand bullies!

I suggested DD writes a note, with a brief explanation of what she's experiencing, adding that she'd appreciate a proper chat at some point this week. DD is going to do that tonight. She will knock on her door and give it to her tomorrow

Can she not email it? Create a paperless paper trail. Otherwise the note could get mysteriously ‘lost’.

Sorry, off topic. But I love they way you are shocked they are nasty because they are attractive.

I am maybe a little sensitive because I have many scares from bullying over my less than attractive appearance. But I am always amazed when the first thing people comment on is how attractive a woman is. If they were a little tubby and not to pretty would you understand why they are mean? And why are women defined by their looks and not men?

Sorry - rant over.

Really horrible for your daughter, OP, I'm sorry for you both.

As another poster said - she must email her line manager, NOT write a note.

Even - "can I please arrange a time to meet with you, I'm finding it very difficult with the way some of my colleagues are behaving toward me and I'd like to discuss ways of addressing it".

Honestly, life is just too short for a 21 year old, with no mortgage or kids to worry about, to stick out a job they don’t enjoy with people they hate.

Those people aren’t going to change, and the business’ culture which allows them to think their behaviour is ok won’t either.

I’d encourage her to update her cv with the experience she’s gained in the role- and in a call centre she’ll have developed some very transferable skills- and start looking elsewhere.

I’ve been that 21 year old and it took me until I was 30 to get to a position where I felt confident asserting myself. There’s no amount of pithy comebacks or chatting to HR which is going to magically make these women decent human beings.

It's so hard to deal with people and situations like that and, sadly, even if she does complain it's highly unlikely to change. She needs to work on her self-esteem and believe that she shouldn't be treated that way. That old saying, something like, 'people can only make us feel bad if we allow them to' is so true.

Ask yourselves would happy people get pleasure from making someone else feel uncomfortable and embarrassed? No, only deeply insecure and unhappy people who are ultimately unhappy with themselves would. They're bitter and probably jealous of your DD.

Unfortunately sounds like she ended up in a toxic environment. CBT for assertiveness is a great idea - the Centre for Clinical Interventions has a great booklet called Assert Yourself which she might find helpful.

Imo her first complaint should simply say that she is not shown what to do and ridiculed if she asks.

I was bullied at work as a teenager. 40+ years later I still feel bad about it. I was bullied at school as well.
If I wS her I'd stick it out for now but look for another job ASAP. It's bever as hard to find your second job and I certainly wouldn't stick around just because it's a 20 minute walk to work.

Work cultures can vary wildly. This sounds particularly unpleasant. She could go to HR but it depends how effective they are.

If she were my daughter I would encourage her to be looking for something else. Does she have any aspirations? Could she aim a bit higher than call centre and admin work? On the job admin training is non-existent these days. You're just expected to know it. It's also generally low paid and dead end. The fact that she's getting lots of lip from these women could indicate that her face doesn't fit. Rubbish I know but there's probably something out there that would be a better fit. She's so young she can try out different things at this stage.

Sounds awful

I think she needs help with assertive communication

Can you help with that or do you know somebody else (ie not mum) who can help her?

She needs to stand up to them but also try to befriend some others there who can firstly be a witness for her and potentially stick up for her too.

From experience, bullies tend to get bored and move on to new prey after a while

Pearlclutchers - The company isn't a national Telecom one, no! I can see why you might think it, though! 😀

To the poster who said admon training is non-existent now, I think you're right, as dd said she's not told things, she's expected to know🤔

She said they all work on lots of different types of policies, some have brokers, some don't, some have excesses, some policies need the excess keyed in to every member's details, others only once on intro screen, documents have to be sent out in different orders depending on the client, etc! Oh and her 'supervisor' doesn't even use ÷ x + - symbols for showing dd how to work out premiums, just puts a - next to each number and expects poor dd to be a mind reader!

A client complained the other day because dd sent out paperwork in the wrong order, and the supervisor yelled at dd in front of everyone, reducing her to tears☹ She said she HAD asked how to send them, but the supervisor told her to 'use her brain'😡

She feels everything's against her, poor thing. Btw I've told her now to e-mail, not hand write that note!

I hope she has a better day today and managed to get the strength to speak to her managers manager.

Insurance?

If so, it never used to be like that. Industries and job sectors attract certain types so it is highly possible that even if she moves companies she will come up against similar unsavoury characters.

Please have a good hard think about what she wants her future to look like. Now is a great time for your daughter to try different things and find her people. It sounds like a poor fit for her.

I've worked in bitchy offices and if you're decent, hardworking and fair it is a horrible environment. I'm assertive but still find those environments draining. Much easier to find something where you are supported and appreciated. Your daughter will find her confidence in her own time.

Look for a new job. This sounds awful and like nothing will ever change.

Hope she finds something she's more suited to. With nice people.

Sorry for the delay in coming back to this thread! Since I last posted though, things are improving for DD!

She's being transferred to the Claims Department as a typist, (one floor up from where she is now), so she'll finally be away from these bullies.

She spoke to her Line Manager (was embarrassed about breaking down in tears in front of her), but at least she could see the stress she's under. She was shocked at the bullying behaviour DD's enduring, and agreed it can't go on.

It turns out that DD's supervisor went to this Manager a day or so before DD, saying she's not suited to the job and making too many mistakes! Now that DD has made it clear that this is down to hardly any training and a hostile atmosphere, she's arranged a transfer.

Typing/secretarial skills is what Dd studied at college and she did so well. I think this job she's struggling with is more for someone who knows the basics of insurance already, which poor DD doesn't! This could have been improved with a bit of support, but sadly the support isn't there. The girls haven't exactly been friendly to DD since they were spoken to (only speaking if she has to ask them something) but at least have stopped bullying her.

She said the other day she was coming back from lunch break and was walking behind two of them. She heard one of them say 'I just LOVE Polly (another colleague) I'm seeing her tonight, she's just my sort of person. And the person walking behind us isn't!!' DD was the only one behind them🙁

She's ok though, she knows she's only got a week to go before transferring to a job she already knows how to do. She's met the two other typists, an older lady and a girl about her age who she said seem lovely. The team she'll be typing for seem nice too.

Such a shame that being quiet/polite/respectful can make 'some' people turn on you, but hopefully she's just been unlucky! Thank you for all your messages, next Monday can't come quick enough for DD!

Really pleased that she's taken control, and that the LM was a decent human. Hopefully she keeps strengthening up from this.

Fantastic update. Well done to your dd for going to see her line manager. That must have taken a lot of courage. Hopefully her new colleagues will be much better to work with than the nasty, immature bullies. They certainly couldn't be any worse.

Thank you! This new job will be one pay grade lower than the job she's in now, (I suppose typing from audio and written transcripts is very different to processing policies/phoning brokers), but I've told her not to worry about that. It's not much of a pay drop, and as I said to DD, it shows that the company value her and want to keep her, the fact they've arranged a transfer rather than just let her go!

We've seen a real difference in her this last week, it's as if a weight's been lifted from her shoulders!

Dropping a pay grade is more than worth it for her to get her life back. There will be plenty of opportunities to move back up later on (if that's what she wants) once she's completely got her confidence back and has had time to gain experience.