What exactly is wrong with ‘it’?

[CatherinedeBourgh]

I was brought up bilingual, english and a gendered language. I always loved that english had a gender neutral option, and when my mum was pg we always talked in english about the babies, so we could say it rather than he or she.

As an adult I once referred to a friend’s baby as it and he said it had offended his wife. I thought ‘whatever, she’s a bit wierd’, but on here people seem to go crazy when anyone does it.

There’s also the whole thing with people referring to others as them even it is only one person because they don’t want to disclose the gender.

So hit me with it. What exactly is so awful about ‘it’?

I’m a vegan so I really, really love animals but I don’t see a problem with calling an animal ‘it’

Good point. Have to wonder what animal lovers call an animal when it's on a plate? Or is it just pets that have the honour of being called he/she?

Well I don't eat meat myself, so I wouldn't know.

See also the tweet about H&M’s baby which got Burchill the sack. “They could have called it ...” Ps she didn’t get the sack for old-fashionedly using “it”.

'It' until it starts doing/saying something half-interesting. Its parents probably find it more fascinating than I do.

This reminds me of that horrible way of referring to the baby as ‘baby’. Put baby to breast. Pat baby on the back. Etc. So bizarre and dehumanising.

I always find the German way of saying "the John" or "the Katy" funny (der John, die Katy). Putting 'the' before the names. It sounds sarcastic to me even though I know it isn't.

I think these language quirks are a perfect time to practice 'when in Rome..' Funnily enough babies and children are 'das' and gender neutral. It still doesn't sound as harsh as 'it' though. 'It' is generally used as an insult in English and not suitable for talking about people unless you want to convey contempt.

It infuriates me when people call their own pets It. Pets are members of our families and have names, it’s horrible to class them as objects.
In the same way, we should say People WHO do something, not People WHICH do it.

I'm with you. An unborn baby of indeterminate sex is an 'it'. I would refer to the baby as such until I knew its sex. "How are you both doing? Is it kicking much?", sounds fine to me.

A baby that has been born is still an 'it' in general terms - A six week old baby is beginning to engage more actively with the outside world. It is likely to be smiling in response to others.

@LadyWithLapdog

This reminds me of that horrible way of referring to the baby as ‘baby’. Put baby to breast. Pat baby on the back. Etc. So bizarre and dehumanising.

Even saying 'baby' is dehumanising too? How odd.

What exactly do you call baby if you don't know baby's, sorry its, sorry their sex or name? Is they/them/their dehumanising too?

I do think calling H&M's baby "it" when the sex was already known was malicious, given the source it came from.

@RickJames

I always find the German way of saying "the John" or "the Katy" funny (der John, die Katy). Putting 'the' before the names. It sounds sarcastic to me even though I know it isn't.

I think these language quirks are a perfect time to practice 'when in Rome..' Funnily enough babies and children are 'das' and gender neutral. It still doesn't sound as harsh as 'it' though. 'It' is generally used as an insult in English and not suitable for talking about people unless you want to convey contempt.

Like the infamous "The Donald" - Melania Trump.

@AnotherName1334 call the baby “the baby” rather than just “baby”. It sounds odd to my ear. I remember a decade ago in a job someone at work changing my mentions of “the Conference” to just “Conference”. I ranted and raved but accepted it and, I have to say, I kind of get the point now.

@LadyWithLapdog I sort of get your point but I don't think it's that different.

If anything "the baby" sounds more dehumanising than just "baby". Saying "Put Baby down for a nap" sounds more like the baby has been given a temporary name 'Baby'. While "Put the baby down for a nap" sounds more like put the thing/person without a name down for a nap', iyswim.

(Neither sounds dehumanising to me though. I think it all depends on how it's said).

@AnotherName1334 there won’t be any right or wrong here, I suppose I’ll go with accepted wisdom and try not to offend. It’s interesting to read how differently things can sound to us.

I agree, it's interesting when we realise how differently we all perceived things. It's why I try not to take offence so easily and try not to offend also. There's much more to understand when we come with an open mind.

For example, if someone asks me to say 'the baby' and not 'Baby' or vice versa, it's no skin off my nose to do just that.

A while ago there was a bestselling book : ‘A Child Called It’, about a child who was severely abused and referred to as ‘it’ by their abusive carers. That’s what would spring into my mind if I ever heard someone refer to any baby as ‘it’, whether they knew the baby’s sex or not.

@Horehound

Sounds like you know people don't like babies and fetuses being referred to as "it" and yet you say "it" anyway to be stubborn because it's "technically correct". Maybe so but it's pretty unfeeling and you'd have to be pretty stupid to not get that.

I don’t know where you get that? I didn’t know before that time, and I have never done it again with anyone in the UK. Among Brits in my country ‘it’ is fairly common, and not offensive.

I will always refer to everyone by my best guess of what they would like to be referred as, but that doesn’t stop my idly wondering where the preference comes from.

@RickJames

I always find the German way of saying "the John" or "the Katy" funny (der John, die Katy). Putting 'the' before the names. It sounds sarcastic to me even though I know it isn't.

I think these language quirks are a perfect time to practice 'when in Rome..' Funnily enough babies and children are 'das' and gender neutral. It still doesn't sound as harsh as 'it' though. 'It' is generally used as an insult in English and not suitable for talking about people unless you want to convey contempt.

To me it’s like how some areas would say ‘our John’ or ‘our Katy’ - it’s a friendly, familiar thing

I don't get the issue with It either. Both my foetuses were Its til they were born as we didn't find out the sex in advance, (which I've always found an odd thing to do as there are so few nice surprises in the world). I'd also prefer he / she / it to they as the number of people being to referred to in the sentence is clear but I'm almost 50 & increasing feeling my age when it comes to the linguistic gymnastics of offence these days.

It's really not that much of a crime to get upset about at all.

As a native English speaker, I think it is an over reaction to be offended by the use of it for a baby. It's not extremely rude.

I have used it with reference to my babies especially in utero. "It's kicking," or "It's doing gymnastics."

It's hilarious that a pp asked if your other language was German because you are suggesting native English speakers could be wrong or weird about the use of it.

I use baby or the baby when talking about someone's unborn child. With my own they were both known as The Baby until we decided on names, and we took ages as we didn't find out the sex either time. They were probably 3 weeks old each time and we still call them the babies even though eldest is secondary age.

However if someone was just making polite conversation, eg. When's it due? I wouldn't have been offended. Tone and type of question make a difference.

My DM's family are native English speakers, and we all (esp the older members) refer to young babies as 'it'. 'I'd no sooner gone downstairs than it started crying!' 'I saw their baby, it's very sweet and smiley.' No offence intended and, within the family at least, none taken.

I quite like it, actually: it's almost a term of endearment reserved, when talking about humans, for tiny people. Once they're about a year old, they become he or she.

Yeah basically it's calling it a thing rather than a person. You call objects or animals 'it'. A baby would be 'them' as a gender neutral.

If you are calling a baby 'them' people are going to wonder how many there are.

@eddiemairswife

If you are calling a baby 'them' people are going to wonder how many there are.

I meant them, as in 'what are you going to call them'. Which is perfectly good English. You'd also use 'they' as in 'what will they be called'.

They/them has always been used to refer to a singular person who's sex you don't know. It's not only a plural.

Thankyou for the English lesson.