Any child psychologists about?

[SecondCityShark]

I don't have children of my own but DH has two and we see them regularly. The youngest is fine but the eldest (12) has some really unusual behaviours. Could do with some advice.

1. She can't be trusted and has stolen things from the house before, like my credit card.
2. She has a weird obsession with serial killers (!). Talks about them nonstop and makes up her own murder stories. No idea whether she genuinely loves them or whether it's an attention thing?
3. makes up stories about her magical powers (like seeing dead people) all the time.

If you try to converse with her about normal stuff, she goes really shy and pretends she can't hear you.

They live with their mum the majority of the time so we don't have major influence but as her new stepmum, I'd like to be a force for good in her life because I really worry about her future.

Im not expecting anybody to have experienced exactly this but has anybody experienced an equivalent? Major attention seeking behaviours? Or is this something worse?

What can I do to help? Is it good or bad to listen to her stories? Good or bad to get professionals involved? BTW, we don't allow much screen time in this house and we take them out for walks, do crafts with them etc. I'm trying to give them positive attention 99.9% of the time.

Is she maybe autistic OP? Fixed interests, limited social skills... what does your DH say?

@LookAtMissOhio

Is she maybe autistic OP? Fixed interests, limited social skills... what does your DH say?

Yeah. It's well know anyone obsessed with serial killers is autistic

Blimey. Autism mooted as the answer in the first reply on this thread. Surely a record.

OK OK, just trying to help. No need to be unkind.

@LookAtMissOhio

OK OK, just trying to help. No need to be unkind.

It's not helpful.

You are the one being unkind. And ignorant.

@LookAtMissOhio

It's something I've considered tbh because (not to drip feed, just didn't want to write an essay to kick things off), she's also constantly coming out as trans, asexual etc. Whatever the latest buzzword is that week at school. I've heard there's a correlation between autism and girls who think they are trans.

I've heard there's a correlation between autism and girls who think they are trans.

It's not a criteria for diagnosis.

Her behaviour is not typical of a 12yr old. I think it's fair enough to speculate on possible reasons when the op has asked just that. No-one said that anyone obsessed with serial killers is autistic, but obsessive behaviour is often a feature of ASD, is it not?

No-one said that anyone obsessed with serial killers is autistic, but obsessive behaviour is often a feature of ASD, is it not?

One example doesn't make a diagnosis.

Suggest her dad speak to school. Are they concerned by her behaviour?

Girls believing they are trans or exploring sexuality has absolutely no correlation with autism - bloody hell. The second a child shows any behaviour that is "different" they're automatically autistic.

@anothernewtop

No-one said that anyone obsessed with serial killers is autistic, but obsessive behaviour is often a feature of ASD, is it not?

One example doesn't make a diagnosis.

No, fair enough, but can't the question even be raised, if a child is exhibiting worrying patterns of behaviour? Obviously an expert would have to make a diagnosis.

What do her parents say?

No, fair enough, but can't the question even be raised, if a child is exhibiting worrying patterns of behaviour? Obviously an expert would have to make a diagnosis.

The 'worrying patterns of behaviour' here are a child who is obsessed with serial killers, has stolen and makes up stories.

You tell me what part of that justifies a jump to autism?

These are very concerning behaviours, all of them. She sounds very mixed up. I certainly wouldn't go along with her stories. I would definitely be seeking professional advice.

Is the stealing mostly of your possessions or more general? A certain amount of boundary testing is normal at that age. I wouldn’t get over invested in the form it takes but just concentrate on having firm, calm, kind boundaries in place.

The murder stories thing isn’t something I’d get too worked up about. There are popular series of kids books in this genre and I’m sure all the famous authors had to start sometime. I’d let it wash over me tbh. My ds (who for full disclosure has asd) is currently going through a phase like that. I did have to have a word with him about not using classmates names in one of his stories and maybe choosing a lighter topic for creative writing assignments. If you act as if it bothers you, kids will try it on. It’s just more boundary testing.

I’d hazard a guess that if you took an interest in serial killers and murder stories yourself and tried to engage her that she might lose interest.

What does her df think of all of this?

To me she sounds a bit 'lost'. Does she have any hobbies other than serial killers? Is she allowed to watch all the true crime stuff thats about on netflix etc atm?

@thelegohooverer

Thanks, you sound like you really get it. The stealing is general and mostly related to food items actually. Like taking full family bags of crisps or whole punnets of fruit to her room. Lots of food hoarding going on. The credit card was the most serious item but isn't typical.

My thoughts were boundary testing too so I've been firm but kind as you suggest.

I do think there's a level of 'shock tactics' with the murderer stuff so I've been wondering whether it's better to reverse psychology it, ignore it or to talk it out with her as a concerned adult.

I've just left messages with a couple of child psychologists so I'll wait to see what they say.

No, she's definitely not allowed to watch true crime at our house. They don't watch much TV but when they do it's more like 'Trolls the movie'.

Her dad is concerned but doesn't know what to do. Her mum is, to be frank, pretty useless.

In terms of hobbies, we took her to a Girl Guiding open day and she was really interested.

She doesn't live here though so would have to join her local branch. Her mum didnt follow up on this suggestion But I guess that shows potential for her to expand her interests.

I'm not a psychologist, but I'm a mental health nurse and family therapist who works with children. I have come across dc with an interest in serial killers before.

I work in a secure children's home (with young people who've committed offences or are held on a welfare order) and we have a very clear policy of directing dc away from discussing inappropriate/criminal/frightening things. At 12 I woukd say serial killers is not an appropriate topic, so I'd set it up as a family rule that you don't speak about things like that (but say it very clearly e.g. we don't chat about frightening crimes where people are hurt because it can upset or frighten people).

I would combine that with giving lots and lots of attention for other things though. Stealing food and using fantasies to gain validation make it sound like she might feel unhappy or have low self-esteem. Is there any risk she's being bullied or something like that?

If it makes you feel any better at 12, I was really into true crime and serial killers. It was one of my main interests. I’m still very interested in true crime and human behaviour. But I didn’t steal things. Does she have friends? The imagination and powers might be an escape. I suspect I’m neurodiverse (I have two children with asd and adhd and see a lot of myself in them). It might be good to think about a play therapist and talking with the school.

Some of this stuff is ott. Taking a family bag of crisps to your room to eat wouldn't be treated as stealing in many households. Clearly the credit card incident is more of a concern but you say this is exceptional.

Being into murder and serial killers is a genuine interest a lot of adults have. It confuses the hell out of me but presumably these people would have been just as untested as children.

I think the interesting or worrying thing is that she is trying to shock you. But then I wonder about this....

Her dad is concerned but doesn't know what to do. Her mum is, to be frank, pretty useless.

So she has two inept parents who haven't tried to help her or find out why she is behaving in a way to get their attention? They are just shrugging their shoulders and leaving it to you? Are you the first person to stop to listen to what she is saying? Is she being shocking around you particularly because she actually has someone listening?

I think, if I wanted to help, I'd listen to everything she had to say but not take what she is saying too seriously. Let her have an audience until she knows that actually, you'd listen to everything she had to say and she wouldn't have to make a big play for your ear or make you worry about her for you to just sit down and listen and talk.

I think it's a mistake to jump in and assume a within child explanation. No one behaviour means anything; all these examples can be part of normal development or of something other than normal.
The snacks thing is pretty standard for teenagers btw - better get used to that. And the credit card is suggestive of a child who needs something she's not getting from her parents.
Does her dad really know her? Or does her mum? Who really knows this child? Talks to her? Knows what makes her tick? If she's happy?
Family therapy is my suggestion, in the first instance at least. Because even if she does have a diagnosable condition, it's how key adults respond to her, and communicate with and about her that will make the difference.

I am a child psychologist, btw

Thanks @Stompythedinosaur really useful insight there. Presumably, the children you know that are into these things have committed crimes (if you can say?). That's one of my major concerns. Of where this might go.

And also, yes that does make me feel better @MSQuinn That's really reassuring and gives me some perspective.

@FourTeaFallOut I think you are right and that's where my instincts lean. I'll see what the child psychologists say when they get back to me.

And just to be clear on the crisps. We are talking big 24 packs of Walkers, not a sharing bag of doritos, sort of thing. And these are things that she's been told are for everybody but she will take the whole lot. Seems wilfully selfish to me and I classify it as stealing because she has taken everybody's share. But maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe that's just typical arsehole teenage behaviour? No idea, I am very inexperienced in these matters!