Have you ever breed your dog?

[GreenTreeLeaves]

I'm considering dipping my toe in considering it.

What are important considerations? How did your dog cope? How many times does your dog meet the stud? Do they meet before you hope she'll stand?

I adore my dog, she and I have a great bond, I almost feel like I'm betraying her just thinking about it.

You'll get torn apart here.

What experience do you have?
What happens if the pregnancy goes wrong? Can you afford the costs of a c-section, for example?
Is it worth the risk of losing your dog?
What health tests has she had? Is she hip, eye and elbow scored? What about other breed relevant tests?
Can you take eight weeks off work to raise a litter of puppies?
How would you go about lining up new homes and what would you do if it didn't work and the owner wanted to return the puppy to you?

No I haven't.
My little one is amazing, really and truly the baby of the family and the kindest little thing ever. I didn't want her to experience having pups and then the sadness of them going.
But I m so grateful someone did otherwise I wouldn't have her.

Oh god @cupsofcoffee not I certainly don't want to lose my dog. Why will I get torn apart? I'm 99% sure I'm not going to do it. It was just spurred on by a conversation I had when I was talking about booking her in to be spade. She's had 2 seasons so I'm very keen to have the op done, but these people were saying I should breed her as there aren't many of this breed around.

Firstly - why do you want to breed from your birch?

Then :
Is she an exceptional example of the breed, meeting all the breed standards, with excellent temperament and health checks?

Can you afford to take at least 8weeks off work to be at home with the puppies?

Have you got a large amount of available credit on a credit card for emergency vet treatment? (A friend spent over $7,500 on emergency vet treatment and the vets weren’t able to save any of the puppies - it was horrendous for everyone)

Do you have the space to take back an 18mth old untrained, non-castrated male, on a bank holiday weekend when the owners decide they can’t cope (and they have to be gone immediately)?

If the answer to any of these is “no” then don’t do it. Yes, puppies are cute but the risks and responsibilities are huge.

If the answer to all of these is “yes” then join your local breed club and start talking to other owners.

@GreenTreeLeaves

Oh god *@cupsofcoffee* not I certainly don't want to lose my dog. Why will I get torn apart? I'm 99% sure I'm not going to do it. It was just spurred on by a conversation I had when I was talking about booking her in to be spade. She's had 2 seasons so I'm very keen to have the op done, but these people were saying I should breed her as there aren't many of this breed around.

Please don't breed your dog! So many unwanted lockdown puppies going to shelters. Why would yo want to breed? For money? I really wouldn't, especially as you are inexperienced. Please rethink!

The only real question is: WHY do you want you want to breed her?

If she is a pet (which I am assuming she is?) and you are not a dog breeder - what precisely is the reason for this?

We had an accidental litter from our farm collie,it was hard work.

Wouldn't breed from our pet. I leave it to people who have a good line and a lot more experience. Lockdown in particular has got everyone wanting to breed their dogs for a fortune and its appaling. One person I know had a pup with an over or under shot jaw, i can't remember which but had it fixed through surgery then started breeding from her like she was a perfect specimen of the breed. It made me really cross

A few people have said my pet (/ trained gun dog) is lovely and they'd be keen to have a pup from her but I have no interest at all

I'll echo what the others have said, and suggest a good chat with your vet who can give you an idea of overall costs and risks. A chat with the breed club about the whole process, especially choosing a male. Also my vet recommended a book called The Book of the Bitch, which was very informative.

We've been thinking about it and doing the research for a year now. Still not sure if its the right choice for our girl. It's a big decision to make.

@GreenTreeLeaves because MN is generally very against breeders.

Please don't breed her. I know you love her but breeding a bitch is a MASSIVE commitment and if you do it properly, it's also very expensive.

At a minimum your bitch would need hip, elbow and eye tests. Depending on her breed, you would also need tests for conditions likely to impact her and the pups too - these conditions range from heart problems to epilepsy and more.

You then need to factor in all pregnancy and birth related costs as your insurance won't pay. So that's costs like the birth, extra food, surgery if necessary, pregnant check ups, raising the puppies - food, time off work, microchips, worming and flea treatments, health checks, vaccines etc.

It's expensive, stressful and not something to decide on a whim.

What breed is she? It makes a big difference - some breeds have much higher risk factors than others. Can you afford the cost of a caesarian (£2000)? Are you home enough to be sure you can monitor her during whelping etc?

Thank you for your replies!

I think you're all right. It is irresponsible really isn't it, given that animal shelters are at capacity.

I've got good credit but not £7,500 at a drop of a hat good I don't think.

She's a Bavarian Mountain Hound, very intelligent, incredibly affectionate and great with my children. But she needs at least 2 hours exercise a day and loves being set hunting tasks, I don't shot, but I leave trails of meat for her to find. She does territory bark though .

The reason I started thinking it over is during that conversation the people said it would be might be an opportunity to help change my circumstances. I know for this I will be torn apart. But this has helped me understand that the risks aren't worth it. I also think I'd find the whole process very upsetting and worry it might risk our bond.

No matter how poor I was I wouldn't use my dog for breeding. People keep asking me to breed mine and I tell them no. She will be spade hopefully soon. Your reasons for breeding are all wrong, she's not a money making machine. How bad would you feel if it all went tits up for the sake of a few bob

BTW our family dog died whilst giving birth along with 6 of her 7 puppies...everyone was devastated

The money aspect is really tricky because there's no guarantees.
I know people that have made a fair amount of money, but also know people that have lost significant amounts.

You need funds to begin with because the outlay comes before any money in usually. The rescue i work with for example has had lots of cases of pregnant dogs handed over because owner hasn't got the money for care or where the owner needed the puppy money, but hadn't got the funds for prenatal care so when there is a pregnancy complication, dog needs an emergency csection etc those costs can run into the thousands before you see any of the puppy money.

Of course there might not be any puppy money. Although puppy fees are high currently, there's no guarantee of how many puppies you'll be able to sell. The last 3 pregnancies that occurred at my rescue would have resulted in a loss of money outside of rescue . One was a perfect pregnancy etc but simply only carried 2 pups (a one was promised to the sire rather than money), One had a normal ish size litter with 2 losses but needed emergency c section surgery half way through and one of the pups needed urgent airway surgery so vet fees were astronomical , and the other had a small litter but sadly mum experienced complications and it was very touch and go for her. Obviously other pregnancies go completely smoothly but its a gamble

@GreenTreeLeaves

Thank you for your replies!

I think you're all right. It is irresponsible really isn't it, given that animal shelters are at capacity.

I've got good credit but not £7,500 at a drop of a hat good I don't think.

She's a Bavarian Mountain Hound, very intelligent, incredibly affectionate and great with my children. But she needs at least 2 hours exercise a day and loves being set hunting tasks, I don't shot, but I leave trails of meat for her to find. She does territory bark though .

The reason I started thinking it over is during that conversation the people said it would be might be an opportunity to help change my circumstances. I know for this I will be torn apart. But this has helped me understand that the risks aren't worth it. I also think I'd find the whole process very upsetting and worry it might risk our bond.

Change your circumstances? As in financially? 🤦‍♀️

There's no real money in breeding if you do it properly, and dogs aren't cash cows.

I don't think MN is against breeders who do it responsibly and breed good quality pups.

However backyard breeders that do it to make a fast buck do get a hard time. If you wish to change your situation letting your dog have puppies is not a good idea. Getting them hip tested/genetically checked, paying for a stud that has also been checked and then all the work that comes with having pups. Yes the prices are very high at the moment but they won't stay so high as lots of unethical people think they are going to make a fortune and we will have a glut of puppies. Sadly I know of two people that have taken on bitches to do just this.

We also have a fairly high amount of pre homing puppies being handed in when they are not "profitable" where there are thing like poor Airways, obvious disability and cleft palates (which sadly is common in the breed specific to the rescue), sometimes after lots of intervention some will still be lost. So even if you make money of cost of puppies vs cost of pregnancy, the cost of raising them to home able ages can be significant.

Its not to say people don't make money, but you need significant enough rescourses that you can pay for whelping care, vet care, surgeries fo mum and litter etc, without the puppy money first or possibly entirely if mum doesn't have any healthy puppies

OP, BMH are wonderful dogs but they're a working breed and I wouldn't breed one that hadn't been proven in work, never mind all the other considerations.

It's great that you keep yours mentally busy. IME working-bred dogs are so much happier when given the chance to do what they were bred for.

Yes, if I was to do it, I'd want to do it right and properly. I couldn't cope with the guilt if something went wrong for my dog or pups and I couldn't help myself. I'm glad I posted so I can push that niggle away.

I would imagine the stud fees would be extortionate as she is a rare breed You would need to test either via cytology or progesterone levels whether she was optimal for mating.

If you are invested in the breed and wishing to promote it go for it, but pick your stud with care. Find out what health checks she needs. Does the greed have genetic predispositions, will you screen for those.

Emergency caesarians invariably happen out of hours, your insurance may not cover this.

There is risk to your dog from complications with the pregnancy.

Its a balance. I wouldn't do it myself due to the above but dogs are big money nowadays.

Breeders always vying for discount at the veys still 🤷🏼‍♀️

In short, I wouldn’t do it if I were you. I originally intended breeding from my Irish Terrier bitch (currently on the ‘on watch’ list of British native breeds, excellent bloodlines, fantastic temperament etc). My late DH and I bought her with cash gifts received for our wedding, and her official, registered name reflects our wedding day. DH died a year and a bit after she was born, and my intention would have been to keep a bitch and keep her bloodline going. So sentimental reasons mostly.

However, after careful consideration of all the things PP have said, it was way too much of a risk - her health, financially, my knowledge/lack of time and also the fact that I would struggle to let them all go and would worry forever that the puppies might end up in a bad home. I therefore had her spayed, and am actually relieved that the option has been taken away. I adopted a rescue dog at around the same time she was spayed, and the two get on brilliantly.

@Coffeemakesmehappy I'm really very sorry to hear about your loss, and I imagine this added further torment to your decision.

I think after reading posts and it giving me a shake and a bit of a fright it's not worth the risk and I'm not going to take it further. I wouldn't get over losing her if the worst happens.

For context, I'm now a single parent student nurse and I work. I'm private renting now, and the reason it was niggling me was in that conversation they said it would be a large chunk towards a house deposit. Which would be pretty life changing. I hadn't considered it before now, I didn't buy her for that reason. She Is just a very loved family pet.

My mum bred a rare breed dog when we were growing up and made next time no money. It was purely as an enthusiast.
Good breeders make an awful lot less profit than people selling “whatever the fuck a poos” on gumtree for £2k.
The stud fee for a rare breed like that would be enourmous.
Big dogs tend to have smaller litters and also (in my experience) more issues.
By the time you’ve paid a stud fee, looked after the dog appropriately with the vet, his puppies all checked by vet even assuming nothing goes wrong it’s not going to be life changing amounts of money you are left with.

I always say to anyone wanting to breed their bitch (or mare...) unless you are willing to risk losing the animal you shouldn’t be breeding. Things can go wrong incredibly quickly unfortunately.

@GreenTreeLeaves why don't you ask the breeder, that sold you the dog in the first place?
They are more knowledge than anyone on MN.
I really don't think, breeding will help your financial situation. Yes, you will probably have a little cash injection at the end of it. But you have to offset this against the initial outlay of costs.
Breeding a litter of puppies takes devotion and is very hard work! Think about the diabolical conditions of puppy farms, there is a reason for this!

I can’t believe you considered monetising your pet for your own circumstances

I’m glad to see you’ve had second thoughts