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How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?

73 replies

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 10:06

We’re moving this weekend from our 2 bed flat which we’ve been living in for over 4 and a half years.

For context/background - We’ve raised three dc in this flat (3 boys all currently 4 and under) and have always tried our best to keep the flat in as good condition as we feasibly could. Whenever our landlady came round, she was always so pleased at how lovely our home looked, and she’s forever singing our praises for being great tenants. However, there are some damages and now I’m weary of losing deposit money.

The damages are as follows -

There is a small tear (around 2 inches) in the lino flooring of our kitchen. This happened when we tried moving our fridge freezer to defrost it. The Lino in the kitchen isn’t fitted properly. It’s basically been cut to size and just plonked down. None of the edges are secure, none of it is glued down, meaning if you Hoover the corners of the room (for example) the hoover lifts up the Lino, so I feel like rips and tears were somewhat inevitable in the kitchen given the Lino moves about!

Some of the carpet in our lounge has badly frayed. Again, the carpet isn’t fitted, it’s just cut and thrown down, not fixed or fitted under any of the skirting boards or door tread.
When our first dc learnt to crawl, he was fascinated by the little fibres poking up by the door tread, and unfortunately he pulled on quite a lot of them, despite my best efforts to stop him. I did trim the frayed pieces, but frays are frays and once things start to fray, it's hard to stop them from fraying further.
I did contact the property management company at the time (and also addressed it at each and every property inspection), as where the carpet isn’t actually fitted, you can lift entire areas up, revealing (essentially useless and pointless) carpet grips - which also aren’t glued or tacked down - and I was worried about my DC’s hurting themselves on the sharp grips. Nothing ever got done about it, so of course, several years later (and 2 more DC’s later) the fraying is quite bad around some of the carpets edges.

A tile on a ledge at the back of our bath has broken - the mastic was never properly done, so if you so much as put a fragment of pressure on the tiles, you’d hear them creaking and crunching. I don’t actually know how the tile came to crack, I can only assume it’s from where my DC’s play on the little ledge during bath time with their bath toys, but to be honest, I’m quite surprised more haven’t broken given how loose they all feel.

Some of the skirting boards have succumbed to splits and chips due to water damage. We’ve always had a big mould problem in this flat, and no matter how hard I tried to stop the mould growing, every winter it came back with a vengeance, meaning the vast majority of our walls would be dripping wet and covered in fluffy mould. Obviously because the walls were wet, the water would soak in to the skirting boards! I’ve tried my best to paint over the cracks and splits, but it is quite noticeable that I’ve attempted to sort it out myself.

We’ve used baby gates across several rooms in the flat - the lounge, the top of the stairs and our DC’s bedroom. The pressure from the baby gates has left quite large ‘dents’ (for lack of a better word!) in the door frames and removed the glossy painting of the wood. Again, I’ve tried painting over it, but you can still see the dents.

The grill part of our oven no longer works. It wasn’t damaged, it just literally stopped working one day. I contacted the property management twice a week for nearly 3 weeks before finally getting a reply that they’d pass my details on to a contractor who will fix it. The contractor never called or emailed me, despite the property management saying that he did.

We’re desperately hoping to get all of our deposit money back, but I don’t know whether the things I’ve listed above, will compromise us.

Do you think we risk losing any money?

OP posts:
CornishGem1975 · 27/05/2021 10:13

As a landlady...

The baby gates - I would say that is not general wear and tear, that is damage caused by your use of baby gates.

With the lino and tiles - again that's damage rather than wear and tear. Did you mention these defects to property company at the time that this was lifting? That might help your case if you have this on record.

The grill - sounds like one of those things. If it's not damaged, then that can't be helped.

Carpet is tricky, as obviously it has been damaged further by your child however you mentioned this as an issue to the company.

Did you mention the mould problem to the management company?

It sounds like there are a lot of issues there that should have been addressed when you first moved into the property. If you didn't mention them, then I think they could be well within their rights to say that some of these aren't general wear and tear.

Mydarlingmyhamburger · 27/05/2021 10:15

I think this should be classed as normal wear and tear given the quality of the workmanship. Make sure you take photos/videos of EVERYTHING just incase they try to claim any of your deposit. Presumably it’s in a protection scheme. If they try to claim your deposit and you disagree with them then a case gets opened and someone will review it and decide what is fair. Going by what you’ve said they haven’t got much of a chance of getting any money out of you.

CornishGem1975 · 27/05/2021 10:17

But the workmanship really should have been identified as problematic right from the start - not at the end when you're clamouring to get your deposit back.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

YellowScallion · 27/05/2021 10:20

Even if something is damage, they can't charge the new price for something old as that would be betterment. So e.g. if the carpet is already 8 years old and needs replacing and the normal life expectancy of a carpet in a rental property is 10 years they could only charge you 20% of the cost of replacement, not the entire cost of a brand new carpet.

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 10:34

@CornishGem1975 the baby gates kind of had to be used to stop my children falling down the stairs or getting out of the lounge and going in to the kitchen. Not to use them would've been dangerous so with this one in particular, I'm hoping not to be penalised.

With the bathroom, I addressed the mastic issue and someone did come out to put some extra mastic down, but it didn't do a great deal and soon lifted and started peeling away again within a few months.

I didn't speak to the property management about the Lino flooring. I just assumed it was 'one of those things'. I didn't know whether lino needed to be glued or secured, it's only since I've recently googled about it, that I learnt it should be glued or at least fitted under the skirting boards.
Everything I've ever addressed with our property management, they've never done anything about. They have in general, been utterly useless.

With the mould, I spoke to my landlady about it directly when our furniture started being damaged by the mould. We bought one of our sons a brand new bed, and within 3 months, mould had damaged the back of the wooden frame. She hired men to come round and install a couple of extra vents - it helped slightly, but you can still see the mould creeping back in in certain rooms/areas.

OP posts:
Horehound · 27/05/2021 10:38

Lol 90% of your list you've immediately then blames on stuff not being laid properly or was never working etc etc. Did you ever raise this at the time?

You caused the tear in the lino by moving the fridge, you said that yourself.
Baby gates, that's not general wear and tear. I'd expect to lose money from that.
Frayed carpets, yep wear and tear especially on a doorway.

I'm sure you'll get some back but not all .

GappyValley · 27/05/2021 10:39

When you live somewhere for 4 years, you have to accept some damage will happen so should factor in losing some of your deposit?

Wear and tear is usual day to day use - carpets won’t look brand new, walls won’t look freshly painted, there will be some scruffs, bobbling etc

But what you’ve described is all damage, apart from the grill
It happened in one go, not gradually over time

Can you glue down the Lino rip and put some more paint on the door frame?

Horehound · 27/05/2021 10:39

the baby gates kind of had to be used to stop my children falling down the stairs or getting out of the lounge and going in to the kitchen. Not to use them would've been dangerous so with this one in particular, I'm hoping not to be penalised

Sorry but that's not the landlady's problem. Your choice to have children! You will need to pay for that I expect.
Maybe she won't see it...

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 10:48

I will be gluing down the rip before we leave, and frankly, I don't think it will be noticeable once I've sorted it.

Yes, I've already painted over the baby gate dents. The paint itself looks fine now, but you can still see the indentations.

I was pregnant with our first dc when we moved in to this flat, so our landlady knew that we'd be having children live within her property. She's a mother herself and has told me countless times not to sweat about 'kids doodles' and the like, and she understands these things happen. So, with that in mind, I don't think she'll be pissed off that we put our DC's safety first. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

With the Lino, the tiles, the carpet etc (and even the mould damages) - none of the damages would've occurred if things were fitted, laid or put in correctly in the first place.

I addressed every issue bar the Lino, as when we first moved in, I was none the wiser about how Lino should be laid, I assumed it was normal. I'd never lived anywhere with Lino floor before.

OP posts:
FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 10:49

Also - regarding our baby gate dents, I should add that when we moved in here, there was already two dents at the top of stairs that had been painted over from the previous family that lived here. We then put our stair gate over the existing dents. So it seems like that's something that's inevitable

OP posts:
Flowers500 · 27/05/2021 10:49

Don’t mention the baby gate damage, cover as best as you can and hopefully they won’t notice.

Fix the Lino as best as you can, glue down the gap?

Fraying and water damage should be fine, if you have reported this repeatedly to them.

Take photos of everything, I think you should be able to get most of that returned. Go to the protection scheme if necessary—the company are likely to try to charge you hundreds for things that clearly needed to be replaced anyway, the deposit company has no time for that crap.

Photos, photos, photos!

GreyhoundG1rl · 27/05/2021 10:51

All sounds like damage, apart from the grill.

PaperbackRider · 27/05/2021 10:51

With the lino and tiles - again that's damage rather than wear and tear. Did you mention these defects to property company at the time that this was lifting? That might help your case if you have this on record

Nonsense. Any damage is caused by the fact that the lino and tiles were not properly fitted, so not OP's issue.

OP, none of it is damage other than from the baby gates, that is on you. The rest is not deductible at all, and yuo should fight any attempt to do so.

shewalkslikerihanna · 27/05/2021 10:51

Both me and my Dd are landlords.
Her rental changed hands this winter.
First of all there was no malicious damage and if anything went wrong my Dd paid to have it put right. The tenants were there 6.5 years
There was lots of damage on the wallpaper from mould, that hadn’t been addressed or reported. It looked like a window had never been opened and washing had been allowed to dry in there. ( a modern 3 bed bungalow btw)
Kitchen.The cooker extractor fan was thick with grease. A new one had been fitted about 4 years ago.
The coating on some the kitchen cupboards was peeling off.
The kitchen tap was loose.
A tile on the wall was broken.
Kitchen window handle was loose

Lounge mould on the wallpaper .
Handle on double glazed Windows was loose

Bathroom
Bath panel broken
Window handle was loose
Expensive properly fitted Lino was covered in water marks
Loo seat damaged

Bedroom one..master..mould on wallpaper , especially near windows
Carpet not hoovered, stained and 3 bags of rubbish just dumped on the floor
Built in wardrobe , emptied but shelves not washed down

Bedroom two..more mould and broken window handle

Bedroom three.stained, unhoovered carpet
Hallway.mould
It cost my Dd £5000 to get it ready to relet.

Rents are cheap here, so theres virtually no profit this year but where do you begin
This was a professional couple with an adult daughter.
My Dd took some money for a professional deep clean from them and gave them about half their deposit back..about £300
Mine have been in about 7 years and spent a lot of money changing things to their liking, so I hope all will be well if they ever decide to move or I decide to sell.

fruitbrewhaha · 27/05/2021 10:52

Baby gates - damage
lino - tricky one, I'd suggest you offer to go half on this.
carpet - wear and tear
tile - sounds like it's not adhered to the wall or is it horizontal? If it's wobbly and you had already mentioned it , then it will break so not your fault.
Mould - well 5 people in a 2 bed flat are going to cause a lot of moisture in the air. Cooking, washing, bathing and breathing all up the humidity and unless you air out the flat by opening the windows properly and regularly you'll get mould. Did you use a dehumidifier? I'd say this is damage you've caused.

However as you've been there over 4 years it's likely they will look to redecorate, it sounds like it wasn't a great finish in the first place so I'm sure there will be some negotiation to be had.

SmallPrawnEnergy · 27/05/2021 10:52

I agree with Cornish. I’m not a landlady but rented in lots of places.

I understand you needed to use the baby gates but the “house” it’s self didn’t need them for functionality. Like if a single person and moved in and hung a mirror leaving holes, you would be expected to make these good or pay for damage to the wall for example. They may allow it to pass as it was a safety feature but don’t be surprised if they don’t. They might have been aware you were pregnant and said something about “doodles” but damage to woodwork is different than something that could be painted over.

With the lino, you actively damaged it. Yes it was an accident but it’s just one of those things. I burned a small mark in carpet with straighteners once (small box room) and they deducted £50 from damage deposit which I thought was reasonable.

The tiles in the bathroom and carpet you have informed the agent of the poor fit which will exacerbate damage, I think you could probably argue this. The fraying would have happened with general wear if it’s not fitted properly especially around doorways.

The grill has stopped working which, if they have sent out a repair man as promised you wouldn’t be charged for. I wouldn’t expect to be charged for this.

When I moved out of my last place (bungalow) the hallway wall on the right as you entered had mould and damp from the skirting board to about knee height. The EA looked horrified when she entered but explained we have had ongoing issues with the shower leaking through the wall and it not being repaired properly and that’s the cause of the damage. No charge for this.

ThePlantsitter · 27/05/2021 10:57

Presumably your deposit is in a DPS? So anything she wants to keep back you can challenge. Some landlords don't bother charging anything though and it tends to be the type who put loose lino/craply laid tiles down etc in my experience. Anyway as a pp said you would only have to pay a proportion of the lifespan of whatever it is and I think it would be a job to argue that cheap lino would last more than 5 years, for example.

shewalkslikerihanna · 27/05/2021 11:00

Op, my Dd would’ve just given you all your deposit back and I would’ve done the same because at least you’d done your best to remedy the situation and left it clean ( bottomed ) as my family would say.

The ones that left my dds made no effort to clean it thoroughly. A bit of flash with bleach, got the mould off the walls apart from the lounge , where they’d let it eat into the paper, so that all had to be stripped and repapered.
She got a friend in to help with the redecorating and did a lot of the work herself.
If she’d had to pay a company you could have added another £2.5k to the Bill.

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 11:01

@fruitbrewhaha we started having issues with mould before our dc even came along, when there was just the two of us in the two bed flat! We moved in the October, and a few months later, everywhere was riddled with mould!

I brought it up on our first property inspection which was about 6 months after we moved in, but nothing was done about it. I then tried to manage the mould myself, constantly having windows open (even in winter!), drying as much washing as possible outside, I spent a fortune on mould sprays, disposable dehumidifiers boxes and had at least 6-8 in each room. I tackled it for as long as could, each time mentioning it at inspections, each time nothing was done about it. But as soon as my kids beds, mattresses and toys etc started being claimed by the mould, that's when I went direct to my landlady.

OP posts:
Dozer · 27/05/2021 11:01

Yes, get photos and wait and see. Would also investigate the process for resolving disagreements, in case you need to do this.

Much depends on the attitude of your landlady.

Northernsoullover · 27/05/2021 11:06

Don't even get into an argument with her. Dispute everything with the TDS. If they side with you great. If they side with landlady they will decide what is fair. They cannot ask for betterment so for example if the lino is 7 years old they might be given a portion of the cost of new but they cannot claim for a new floor. The deposit schemes seem to always favour the tenant. Sometimes unfairly.

Triffid1 · 27/05/2021 11:10

Personally, I'd see most of that as wear and tear except the baby gates. That is something specific you did. I also think you're being a bit silly if you don't accept that you have to accept the cost of fixing that.

For the rest, I think landlords need to accept this sort of wear and tear and over a long tenancy should, in theory, have been putting aside money for maintenance. Especially if you flagged issues as they came up. Things like new carpets etc would be fairly standard to replace after a long tenancy. Water damage is more complex but if it was flagged as an issue to the landlord, I'm not sure how that's your problem?

Having said that, the door handles on our windows in our last rented flat all broke. they were cheap and nasty and annoying. The landlord insisted we had damaged them. I'm not exactly sure what he thought we'd been doing - going around smashing window handles? So I suspect you may find a lot of your deposit is taken.

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 11:10

@shewalkslikerihanna apart from what I've listed in my first post, the flat is spotless. I'm generally a bit of a clean freak so taking away the things I've mentioned, the entire rest of the flat is clean and in great working order.

There are no stains on any of the carpets, any wall doodles my children have done and have been thoroughly painted over, the bathroom (minus the cracked tile) looks immaculate and the same as it did the day we moved in over 4 and a half years ago.
All kitchen cupboards are perfectly clean, I spent an entire day scrubbing the kitchen walls so there's no grease residue anywhere at all.
All of the windows are clean and sparkly, including the frames and the inside bits where the brackets/hinges are.
I've even cleaned all the radiators, the skirting boards, the coving, light switches, plug sockets - just about everything!

OP posts:
FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 11:18

@Triffid1 our deposit was over £800 if I remember correctly, I don't see how putting a bit of filler over some small dents (you can tell that's exactly what was done to the baby gate dents caused by the previous tenants), replacing one small tile (the tile is about 2x2 inches big) and laying a new piece of Lino will cost 800 quid. Our kitchen is tiny - literally like a postage stamp so it's not as if the amount needed to replace it is staggering.

For what it's worth, our landlady is genuinely amazing. We fell on our feet with her and she is such a lovely lady, truth be told I wish she could be our landlady for our next home!

She owns the flat beneath us too, and although both of our contracts state that we aren't to have pets, she's turned a blind eye to our neighbours getting two kittens! And she also isn't fussed that the neighbours (who have a garden) have absolutely destroyed their grass by parking cars all over the back garden!

OP posts:
JengaCupboard · 27/05/2021 11:38

When I rented historically my letting agent advised that things such as paintwork/carpets etc were expected to last three years if no evidence of malicious damage. I found this out after panicking that I'd spilled hair dye on the bathroom lino, and was advised that it wasn't an issue as i'd lived there for 4 years. I wasn't charged on leaving.

I appreciate there is a degree of responsibility in terms of your reporting it, and ventilating properly etc, however mould problems with three young children/incorrectly fitted flooring/non-working appliances not addressed... sounds like you're making the right decision by leaving anyway! There are some bloody awful greedy landlords out there in my experience (but not all i'm sure).

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