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How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?

73 replies

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 10:06

We’re moving this weekend from our 2 bed flat which we’ve been living in for over 4 and a half years.

For context/background - We’ve raised three dc in this flat (3 boys all currently 4 and under) and have always tried our best to keep the flat in as good condition as we feasibly could. Whenever our landlady came round, she was always so pleased at how lovely our home looked, and she’s forever singing our praises for being great tenants. However, there are some damages and now I’m weary of losing deposit money.

The damages are as follows -

There is a small tear (around 2 inches) in the lino flooring of our kitchen. This happened when we tried moving our fridge freezer to defrost it. The Lino in the kitchen isn’t fitted properly. It’s basically been cut to size and just plonked down. None of the edges are secure, none of it is glued down, meaning if you Hoover the corners of the room (for example) the hoover lifts up the Lino, so I feel like rips and tears were somewhat inevitable in the kitchen given the Lino moves about!

Some of the carpet in our lounge has badly frayed. Again, the carpet isn’t fitted, it’s just cut and thrown down, not fixed or fitted under any of the skirting boards or door tread.
When our first dc learnt to crawl, he was fascinated by the little fibres poking up by the door tread, and unfortunately he pulled on quite a lot of them, despite my best efforts to stop him. I did trim the frayed pieces, but frays are frays and once things start to fray, it's hard to stop them from fraying further.
I did contact the property management company at the time (and also addressed it at each and every property inspection), as where the carpet isn’t actually fitted, you can lift entire areas up, revealing (essentially useless and pointless) carpet grips - which also aren’t glued or tacked down - and I was worried about my DC’s hurting themselves on the sharp grips. Nothing ever got done about it, so of course, several years later (and 2 more DC’s later) the fraying is quite bad around some of the carpets edges.

A tile on a ledge at the back of our bath has broken - the mastic was never properly done, so if you so much as put a fragment of pressure on the tiles, you’d hear them creaking and crunching. I don’t actually know how the tile came to crack, I can only assume it’s from where my DC’s play on the little ledge during bath time with their bath toys, but to be honest, I’m quite surprised more haven’t broken given how loose they all feel.

Some of the skirting boards have succumbed to splits and chips due to water damage. We’ve always had a big mould problem in this flat, and no matter how hard I tried to stop the mould growing, every winter it came back with a vengeance, meaning the vast majority of our walls would be dripping wet and covered in fluffy mould. Obviously because the walls were wet, the water would soak in to the skirting boards! I’ve tried my best to paint over the cracks and splits, but it is quite noticeable that I’ve attempted to sort it out myself.

We’ve used baby gates across several rooms in the flat - the lounge, the top of the stairs and our DC’s bedroom. The pressure from the baby gates has left quite large ‘dents’ (for lack of a better word!) in the door frames and removed the glossy painting of the wood. Again, I’ve tried painting over it, but you can still see the dents.

The grill part of our oven no longer works. It wasn’t damaged, it just literally stopped working one day. I contacted the property management twice a week for nearly 3 weeks before finally getting a reply that they’d pass my details on to a contractor who will fix it. The contractor never called or emailed me, despite the property management saying that he did.

We’re desperately hoping to get all of our deposit money back, but I don’t know whether the things I’ve listed above, will compromise us.

Do you think we risk losing any money?

OP posts:
Dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 27/05/2021 11:38

I would say you absolutely should get your whole deposit back - what an unreasonable landlady to expect you to put up with a mouldy flat and improperly fitted flooring.

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 11:44

She didn't expect us to put up with the mould, I told the property management about it several times, but they are absolutely useless. They were the ones that never did anything about it, or mention my concerns or problems to the landlady.
When I spoke directly to my landlady about the mould, she was mortified and had people round to install vents within the month! Unfortunately, we put up with/tried to tackle the mould ourselves for most of our tenancy, so the vents only got installed about 8 months ago. You can tell that they are working somewhat, but I think the next tenants will encounter much of the same issues that we had when winter rolls around again.

A few posters have said that the mould was bad because there was 5 of us living here, which I understand could have accelerated the issue, but, the mould was bad before we had our DC's when it was just the two of us living here.

OP posts:
Dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 27/05/2021 11:48

[quote FolsomPrisonBlues]@fruitbrewhaha we started having issues with mould before our dc even came along, when there was just the two of us in the two bed flat! We moved in the October, and a few months later, everywhere was riddled with mould!

I brought it up on our first property inspection which was about 6 months after we moved in, but nothing was done about it. I then tried to manage the mould myself, constantly having windows open (even in winter!), drying as much washing as possible outside, I spent a fortune on mould sprays, disposable dehumidifiers boxes and had at least 6-8 in each room. I tackled it for as long as could, each time mentioning it at inspections, each time nothing was done about it. But as soon as my kids beds, mattresses and toys etc started being claimed by the mould, that's when I went direct to my landlady. [/quote]
That is mould inherent in the fabric of the property and not the tenant's fault at all. You should avoid renting places like that.

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JediGnot · 27/05/2021 11:52

I think the landlord should have budgeted for complete redecoration at the end of the tenancy agreement given the time you were in there for. It sounds like every bit of damage has been caused by normal use and / or shoddy workmanship, neither of which are your fault. It sounds like the landlord should have spent thousands of pounds more to get the property nice before you moved in, and if they'd done that then all they'd need to do now is repaint, which they'd need to do anyway given how long you've been there.

lurker101 · 27/05/2021 11:52

As others have said, if your deposit is protected (per law) then you can dispute the charge (often they side with tenant). It’s very simple to do - just upload some pictures/text online, and landlord has a few weeks to respond. Crucially - whilst deposit is in dispute you get the undisputed amount back (so don’t worry if you need the money ASAP) I.e. if landlord says £200 of damage out of £800 deposit, when you raise a dispute you would get £600 ASAP while the dispute over the remaining £200 is ongoing.
Take plenty of pictures when leaving and keep all your email correspondence.

sotired2 · 27/05/2021 12:00

I think most is wear and tear and by the sounds of it it was not in Grade 1 condition when you moved in. However you moved in no baby and so the damage caused by baby gate should be covered by you to at least put to standard was in when you moved in.

As flooring s not new when you went in I think most you should pay is a small contribution as are of an age even without damage would need replacing.
Tile issue as you reported again I would say not your problem it then cracked same with grill.
If I was the landlord I would probably agree to giving you all or majority of deposit back.
Have you a photograph inventory of condition from when you moved in as this sis the best way for both sides to determine what is ear and tear and what is damage?

RuthW · 27/05/2021 12:03

I would say you need to pay for all apart from the cooker.

shewalkslikerihanna · 27/05/2021 12:04

[quote FolsomPrisonBlues]@shewalkslikerihanna apart from what I've listed in my first post, the flat is spotless. I'm generally a bit of a clean freak so taking away the things I've mentioned, the entire rest of the flat is clean and in great working order.

There are no stains on any of the carpets, any wall doodles my children have done and have been thoroughly painted over, the bathroom (minus the cracked tile) looks immaculate and the same as it did the day we moved in over 4 and a half years ago.
All kitchen cupboards are perfectly clean, I spent an entire day scrubbing the kitchen walls so there's no grease residue anywhere at all.
All of the windows are clean and sparkly, including the frames and the inside bits where the brackets/hinges are.
I've even cleaned all the radiators, the skirting boards, the coving, light switches, plug sockets - just about everything! [/quote]
You’d definitely get all your money back if you’d been our tenants.that’s all we ask as we are reasonable people and just want people to treat our houses respectfully.
Neither house has a mortgage so we can recoup our losses.
All we want is our tenants to be happy in a beautiful home and what those people did to my dds house enraged me so much as we were their neighbours and they seemed lovely people.

I don’t understand why your landlady is paying a letting agent.
We do it all ourselves and hers don’t sound fit for purpose
That I think is where the trouble lies

Try to write a log of when you reported the problem if there’s a dispute

loopylou3030 · 27/05/2021 12:12

The carpet which you could have stopped your child damaging - damage.

Your children breaking the tile in the bathroom - Damage

Moving the fridge and ripping the lino - Damage

Stairgates you installed for your needs - Damage

Grill - Not damage and should have been sorted by landlords

All I take from this is that nothing is your fault and unfortunately it is. Best take responsibility and try not to break/damage things in future.

OldM0therTime · 27/05/2021 12:14

I think from what you have described, if they are being reasonable you should get it back. We moved a few months ago out of a house we were in for nearly 5 years and we had similar damage/wear and tear issues. Including the carpet coming up and fraying in the corners (we had cats as well, with permission obviously).

I offered them some money towards the carpets in lieu of us cleaning them, I said I thought they would want to replace so would offer them the money towards that rather than pay a professional carpet cleaner for the damaged carpet. They didn't ask for any money towards it in the end.

Similarly we had a baby gate screwed in to the bannister at the top of the stairs, I polyfilled the holes and smoothed them down and they were happy with that.

I think a lot of it is them seeing you have made an effort. I arranged a walkthrough with the landlord before the letting agent did an inspection so we could address issues beforehand but they were happy with it all in the end. They expect some wear and tear, they should account for that with the rent.

As others have said make sure you take photos of everything and good luck!

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 12:18

@loopylou3030 but even if we didn't have DC's, the carpets still would have frayed anyway. They're all just roughly cut and put in each room. None of them are secured down, they all lift up and the carpet grips around the edges of each room aren't even glued or nailed down! The rough cuts to the carpet, particularly by all our doors/door treads meant they were always going to fray. I don't really see how it's my fault. Had they been laid and fitted properly, the frays never would've happened.

Again, with the Lino - had it been fitted properly, it wouldn't have ripped. The flooring ripped because where our fridge stands, the Lino is bumpy and loose, moving anything on that Lino causes the flooring to move too. If you Hoover by our back door (right where our fridge is) the hoover lifts up that entire section of the Lino.

OP posts:
loopylou3030 · 27/05/2021 12:22

[quote FolsomPrisonBlues]@loopylou3030 but even if we didn't have DC's, the carpets still would have frayed anyway. They're all just roughly cut and put in each room. None of them are secured down, they all lift up and the carpet grips around the edges of each room aren't even glued or nailed down! The rough cuts to the carpet, particularly by all our doors/door treads meant they were always going to fray. I don't really see how it's my fault. Had they been laid and fitted properly, the frays never would've happened.

Again, with the Lino - had it been fitted properly, it wouldn't have ripped. The flooring ripped because where our fridge stands, the Lino is bumpy and loose, moving anything on that Lino causes the flooring to move too. If you Hoover by our back door (right where our fridge is) the hoover lifts up that entire section of the Lino. [/quote]
Honestly you can't blame everything on someone else. Regardless of whether you think the fitting is up to scratch or not. You either raise ALL these issues the week you move in or you take responsibility after the fact for further damage you have caused. Hopefully as you have been good tenants and paid your rent on time she will expect to have to do some repairs as wear and tear and won't charge you for these jobs.

murbblurb · 27/05/2021 12:23

Typing this out for the umpteenth time because no one on MN understands about deposit protection or reads the how to rent guide...

Any damage attracts deposit deductions. Those are calculated by taking the remaining life of the item and then pro rating for the area damaged. Example - if there were brand new carpets when you moved in, expected to last about seven years, and you used the centre of the carpet for ironing, the landlord would get 3/7 of the value prorated for the small area damaged. Even though the carpet is wrecked, thats still a tiny sum. (Been there)

As this place sounds a tatty dump, the landlord will get peanuts back for the damage.

PaperbackRider · 27/05/2021 12:26

Honestly you can't blame everything on someone else. Regardless of whether you think the fitting is up to scratch or not

She can, here. OP didn't badly fit the carpet and lino, someone else did. She can blame that someone else!

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 12:27

So that you all can understand what I mean regarding the carpets...

I'm willing to accept blame for the baby gates, that is on us but obviously we took those measures to ensure our dc were safe first and foremost.

The tile crack in the bathroom likely could've been avoided, so I'll have to accept blame for that too.

But I still stand firm that if the carpets and Lino were all correctly fitted, we wouldn't have encountered the damages.

In the photos, you can see clearly that they are so very far from being secure!

How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?
How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?
OP posts:
FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 12:31

@loopylou3030 I raised the carpet issue more times that I can possibly count. Nothing was ever done about it! During one inspection, I again told the property management about the carpet, I even showed him how easy it is to catch your fingers or toes on the exposed carpet grips, he made a note of it, did nothing about it. This was a battle I fought for years. The carpets fraying are absolutely not my fault, see the photos I've just posted and explain to me how I could've possibly prevented any damage to them, when 90% of our carpets are all about 5cms away from the skirting boards!

OP posts:
FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 12:33

And this is why the Lino was ripped!

First photo shows a bump, second shows that the Lino is literally just plonked on the flooring. It isn't secured down even remotely!

How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?
How much of our ‘damage’ can be put down to general wear and tear?
OP posts:
loopylou3030 · 27/05/2021 12:37

[quote FolsomPrisonBlues]@loopylou3030 I raised the carpet issue more times that I can possibly count. Nothing was ever done about it! During one inspection, I again told the property management about the carpet, I even showed him how easy it is to catch your fingers or toes on the exposed carpet grips, he made a note of it, did nothing about it. This was a battle I fought for years. The carpets fraying are absolutely not my fault, see the photos I've just posted and explain to me how I could've possibly prevented any damage to them, when 90% of our carpets are all about 5cms away from the skirting boards! [/quote]
You have been there years. I cannot understand why you have stayed so long if you have been ignored every time you make a complaint it makes no sense. If I had mould in my home (when it was just the 2 of you) and you were being ignored and the issue not fixed, why on earth have not one but three children in the property. Surely you give notice and move out immediately. Very bizarre.

PaperbackRider · 27/05/2021 12:39

You have been there years. I cannot understand why you have stayed so long if you have been ignored every time you make a complaint it makes no sense. If I had mould in my home (when it was just the 2 of you) and you were being ignored and the issue not fixed, why on earth have not one but three children in the property. Surely you give notice and move out immediately. Very bizarre

Says someone who clearly has no fucking idea how modern renting works. Except possibly as a bloody landlord Hmm

ThePlantsitter · 27/05/2021 12:42

I think you're getting yourself worked up about it for no good reason. Everything you've described is either fair wear and tear or accidental damage not malicious vandalism so ultimately it doesn't matter what anyone on MN thinks. I know sometimes the deposit return thing can feel like a judgement on your way of life but it isn't it's just money. Maybe you will have to pay for the lino rip/ stairgate dent but my guess is you won't have to. Having a stress about it on here isn't going to make any difference. I'm not trying to be unpleasant by the way it's just easy to get upset by what people say on here and ultimately it's completely irrelevant.

FolsomPrisonBlues · 27/05/2021 12:43

@loopylou3030 it's taken us a year to get the money together to move out! Believe it or not, finding thousands of pounds to move out isn't that simple.
What's more, our contract states that if we move out before our tenancy was supposed to end, we'd be liable to continue paying rent on this property until the landlord found new tenants. Funnily enough, we've never been in a position to afford to cancel our tenancy early, continue paying rent on this property as well as paying rent on the new one.

OP posts:
Lettuceforlunch · 27/05/2021 12:44

You’ll get your deposit back. If they threaten otherwise, report them for the dodgy landlords they are leaving mould uninvestigated.

RosaBudDrood · 27/05/2021 12:45

@shewalkslikerihanna

Both me and my Dd are landlords. Her rental changed hands this winter. First of all there was no malicious damage and if anything went wrong my Dd paid to have it put right. The tenants were there 6.5 years There was lots of damage on the wallpaper from mould, that hadn’t been addressed or reported. It looked like a window had never been opened and washing had been allowed to dry in there. ( a modern 3 bed bungalow btw) Kitchen.The cooker extractor fan was thick with grease. A new one had been fitted about 4 years ago. The coating on some the kitchen cupboards was peeling off. The kitchen tap was loose. A tile on the wall was broken. Kitchen window handle was loose

Lounge mould on the wallpaper .
Handle on double glazed Windows was loose

Bathroom
Bath panel broken
Window handle was loose
Expensive properly fitted Lino was covered in water marks
Loo seat damaged

Bedroom one..master..mould on wallpaper , especially near windows
Carpet not hoovered, stained and 3 bags of rubbish just dumped on the floor
Built in wardrobe , emptied but shelves not washed down

Bedroom two..more mould and broken window handle

Bedroom three.stained, unhoovered carpet
Hallway.mould
It cost my Dd £5000 to get it ready to relet.

Rents are cheap here, so theres virtually no profit this year but where do you begin
This was a professional couple with an adult daughter.
My Dd took some money for a professional deep clean from them and gave them about half their deposit back..about £300
Mine have been in about 7 years and spent a lot of money changing things to their liking, so I hope all will be well if they ever decide to move or I decide to sell.

Typical landlord response.

Mould is always the tenants fault! Hmm

Babynames2 · 27/05/2021 12:46

Anything you’ve mentioned to them and asked them to repair shouldn’t be deducted as it’s a maintenance issue that you’ve raised and they haven’t sorted e.g the grill and mould, they should have sorted that to ensure you had proper use of the property. Carpet I would argue is wear and tear. So that just leaves the baby gate marks and the Lino. I would expect a small deduction but as a pp said, you can’t be charged full replacement price for it. I agree that things fitted improperly will obviously get ruined.

We moved out of a rental place which had mould issues that they never resolved, a bathroom leak which was poorly repaired, boiler which broke down every winter and for 8 months the garden was unusable for our 3 year old as half the fence panels blew down in a storm and she claimed they couldn’t be replaced due to Covid. When we moved out she tried to charge us for a full repaint of the house (no real marks or anything, just a few scuffs after 3 years there). We challenged it and won. She claimed she usually had it as part of her contract that you have to pay for a full repaint, it would have cost as much as the deposit!

Take a look at the wear and tear section on tenantsvoice. Don’t agree to any deductions at the check out inventory (unless you’re happy with it) and get whatever’s agreed in writing as well. Make sure you take photos of everything! Do you have photos or an inventory from moving in? And get a print out of all emails regarding maintenance issues and their replies and have that with you at the check out inventory to challenge things there and then.

ChloeCrocodile · 27/05/2021 12:52

As others have said, don't agree to any deductions at all. If everything was brand new at the time you moved in they may be able to claim a percentage of replacements. If the lino / carpet etc were already a few years old then they may not be able to claim anything anyway due to betterment rules.