I love our NHS, I do, but OMG my experience this afternoon...

[NewMatress]

DH admitted yesterday. Long story, but he usually has his pain managed by the hospice and is generally comfortable. I gave the hospital the hospice discharge letter with a list of his prescribed meds, when he was admitted.

He's been calling me c. every hour crying with pain and begging to come home. I've spoken to the nurse in charge a number of time asking what's gone so wrong with his pain management. She's been quite rude saying that he's getting everything prescribed.

Anyway, eventually a McMillian nurse called me to check the dose as she thought the break through pain relief dose was low. It turns out they've been using a liquid with a concentrate of only 1/10 of the one he's actually prescribed. I.e his prescription is for 5ml of a 10mg per ml liquid every hour and they've been giving him 5ml of a 1mg per ml liquid.

Once we got to the bottom of that I thought he'd be more comfortable, but when I went to visit him this evening, he's still crying with pain because at 6:30 he was still waiting for the breakthrough pain relief he'd asked for at 3:30. The nurse told me it was because it needs a 2nd sign off as a controlled drug, which I understand, so get one! At which point she said well discharge yourself then. I'll get a doctor and you discharge yourself. The doctor never came, I'd love to talk to to a doctor, no one has yet been able to tell me why DH is still there, as they've established the chest pain he was admitted with is nothing more sinister than his usual cancer pain.

When he did eventually get the pain relief, both nurses were quite rude to me about my impatience and one accused me of saying I wanted her to lose her job, which was simply not true. I said I wanted her to do what was needed to get the pain relief I.e. find a second person.

Meantime, the man in the bed opposite as begging for help the whole time I was there. He has no use of his hands and no one would help him with a drink (I did) and when they brought his dinner they just left it for him with no means to actually eat it. I marked my card again by insisting that someone help him.

I'm exhausted and I'm not the one who's ill. Don't tell me everyone in the NHS is an angel. I get it's tough but this is simply not OK.

A relative of mine spent time on a ward where there had to be at least one nurse present at all time (think ICU but not). One night there was no nurse to be found. An elderly and very confused gentleman in the bed opposite got out of bed and fell. The nurses heard the commotion and came and scooped up the man and put him back into bed. When his relatives visited some 12 hours later they raised concerned over how unwell he looked and it was discovered he had broken his hip. My relative spoke with the family to let them know what had happened during the night. My relative died quite unexpectedly a few weeks later partly due to the almost non existent care they too received from the staff on that ward.

Reading your update, is there anyone higher up you can speak to now? I know you don't want to jeopardise his care but if they're held accountable by someone that can only be good for your DH. How dismissive can they be.

I agree. I had a csection and they had not given me enough pain relief. I was begging them and crying delirious in pain (I could feel the catheter) but they insisted I had the right amount of relief.
I called up my partner ( he was at home with the other kids) crying. He had to call up the hospital and explain that I was on the ward in pain. After much arguing with my care team they realised that the medication dose was too low.
They were so apologetic after that and couldn't do enough for me as they thought I would sue the hospital.

@NewMatress

It feels very risky to escalate complaints while you're still dependent on the help of the people concerned.

I am so sorry @NewMatress - I really hope your DH is more comfortable now, and I hope you are as OK as is possible in the circumstances.

My mum, when hospitalised with cancer back in 2008, said exactly the same thing as you have here.

There was a catalogue of totally avoidable errors and neglect, and she was terrified of complaining because she thought her care would get even worse.

I did complain, through PALS and through the hospital's own complaints procedure, and after her death I actually received a formal apology from the hospital Trust for the dreadful failings in the "care" that she had received.

This has nothing to do with Covid. There have, sadly, always been rude, cruel hospital staff, and the underfunding and under-resourcing of the NHS just gives them an excuse to be blatant in their rudeness and cruelty.

I am sure the majority of NHS staff must be lovely - I read it enough times on Mumsnet so it must be true! - but, sadly, I have never met any of them. I live in hope (although, more than that, I hope that nobody I love ever has to be hospitalised in the UK ever again).

to OP

@Shewalksinbeautylikethenight

So sorry to hear your story, OP, but sadly not surprised. I think your point about not complaining while you’re still dependent on the hospital is fair - I would raise your concerns via the consultant not through nursing staff or PALS. When my child had cancer they were seen in 5 different hospitals and in my experience bad care is principally about culture not funding, and culture is driven by the tone at the top. And as PPs have mentioned - the problem is invariably the nursing staff, ignoring buzzers, ignoring instructions from doctors, screeching and bantering all night behind their desks; letting syringe drivers beep at night for hours,; ignoring patients and their families queuing up at the desk. The senior nurses allow this culture in too many (in my life experience, most) hospitals. Where they don’t, the NHS can indeed be fantastic.

Completely agree about the culture. At certain hospitals there is a very definite bare minimum approach from nursing staff. Patient care is an inconvenience, too many nurses would rather sit around chatting or on their phones than do the job they are paid to. And there's often no accountability, no one to pull them up and say it simply isn't on.

^ this in spades.

Do you have someone who could advocate for you @NewMatress? You must be exhausted, and having a third party - who is slightly emotionally removed from the situation - speak on behalf of you and your husband might make it easier for your voice to be heard? Nurses are far too quick to dismiss relatives' concerns as emotional overreaction when they are pulled up about not doing their jobs properly.

I hear you OP - been there. My DDs and I stayed with my OH all the time during the day for similar reasons. Without us there he would simply have dehydrated for a start. It was a disgrace.

We found that any shifts with Pilipino male nurses on them were always really good for my elderly father. I think they could teach some of our UK-born nurses a lot about compassion and competence.

@Mischance

I hear you OP - been there. My DDs and I stayed with my OH all the time during the day for similar reasons. Without us there he would simply have dehydrated for a start. It was a disgrace.

I suspect it wouldn't be very good for my health to do that, but strictly one hour of visiting only. Which is a vast improvement on when he was in in Jan and Feb for 10 weeks without any visits. I do wonder now whether there's a sensible reason to restrict visits so much or whether hospitals prefer not to have us. I mean, from covid pov what's the difference between me sitting there for and hour or three?

It's actually the treatment of the other man that has left me most traumatised, weirdly. I felt so helpless, but it felt like I should be able to help iyswim.

The NHS were terrible with all my elderly relatives and we were often spoken to as if we were shit on their shoes by some of the doctors. We were always polite and understanding but they still had this superior attitude. It was horrible.
I feel for you and it is impossible to stay with a relative in hospital 24/7, you have to just hope they receive some basic care when you can't be around for them. Sadly it's very hit and miss indeed and probably worse now because of the covid situation as well.
I agree with others about writing to PALS.
I am dreading getting older and ending up in hospital . I really am.
I really feel for you op and I agree that the nhs generally needs an over haul. Some are great , but too many are just not and really do not care at all!
It's so sad.

@oneglassandpuzzled I've had similarly positive experiences with Filipino HC providers. When my granny was in a care home with advanced dementia, they could not have been kinder. It was like they were looking after a family member.

[quote beingsunny]@Mango101 there's a good in between than the NHS And the private healthcare of the states, we have it here in Australia.[/quote]
Completely agree re Australia; GP friend worked in Australia and NZ for years and said their service was a million times better - said if you could afford you paid, if you couldn’t it was subsidised . I remember her saying if she wanted a patient to have an ultrasound it was done within days, not a year - as opposed to NHS where I’ve previously waited four years for a twenty minute operation - and have just joined another list that they said is currently 3-5 years long .

My NHS therapist strongly advised me to take the NHS to court over their treatment of me; I just don’t have the confidence (or money!) to do it . I doubt I’d get anywhere anyway .

It's so hit and miss. I had exemplary care from some nurses and all the medics when I was in ICU with a PE. When I was downgraded to the general cardiac ward I was gobsmacked about some of the things I witnessed.

A semi-conscious woman was admitted and placed on my 4 bed bay - this was early-ish morning and it was just her and I. She started convulsing, I was still bedbound (PE was caused by major leg surgery so was immobile) so rang my emergency buzzer, a nurse ran in to me and I yelled "she's having a seizure!" and gesticulated towards the poor woman. The nurse ran off and I was fully expecting a troop of nurses and medics to arrive ... nothing ... still nothing ... after a few minutes I rang again and was like "what the hell? she's having.a.fit!". The response to which was, "yeah, we were doing handover" and they finally got the doctors and all started swarming around her.

They did call for a clinical manager who came to talk to me - but I strongly suspect that was an attempt to placate me and avoid a complaint.

That poor poor woman - turned out she was in the midst of a thyroid storm.

[quote Aspiringmatriarch]@oneglassandpuzzled I've had similarly positive experiences with Filipino HC providers. When my granny was in a care home with advanced dementia, they could not have been kinder. It was like they were looking after a family member.[/quote]
They're great, aren't they! Small things like gently stroking an old person's brow.

I'm surprised you were allowed in at all. Our hospital is closed to all visitors and has a for months. My Dad has just had an operation and the communication is abysmal. They denied he was on the ward most of the time. The NHS has gone to rot.

@NewMatress

He does actually have private medical insurance, but I don't know how to go about getting him on a path for private care or even if it would make a difference.

Call the insurance cover and see what they suggest or Google your nearest local private hospital and ask what they require, they might ask for a referral from a dr but I'm not sure. I would start by calling these two though as they'll be able to point you in the right direction. My son was seen privately and it didn't matter what hospital as they just ask for the insurance details

TaraR2020 When you need referring ask for an NHS choices referral to the hospital of your choice, I never waited longer than a month for my first appointment, usually it was within a couple of weeks. They arrange any tests you need & then give you a date for your operation. I've had 5 ops this way including a hysterectomy that I went in at 5.00pm, theatre at 6.00pm, back on the ward by 8.00pm & was on my way home by 9.00am next morning, my partner was able to stay over with me. You get exactly the same care as a private patient except you don't get a free newspaper every morning.

@nat6999 so you can be referred to an exclusively private hospital yet its paid for by the NHS, is that right? If so I had no idea!

@Springchickpea

YANBU *@NewMatress* absolutely awful. But meds in hospital are a joke anyway. I had a 5yo post tonsillectomy readmitted for bleeding. The admitting dr didnt write up nurofen for him, so the nurses couldn’t give it apparently. It took them 6 hours to track down a dr to sign it off. All the while I had a distraught little boy all for the want of an OTC painkiller. [hospital pharmacy don’t sell any paracetamol/ibuprofen OTC so I couldn’t even get some myself, and it was late into the evening when the problem was spotted meaning I was stuck without any help from home]

Unfortunately the nurse was correct. She couldn't give it if it's not prescribed. Though I would have gone to actually find a doctor and would have shoved the chart under their nose and stood over him while he wrote it.

These nurses should be encouraging you to complain. It sounds like the ward is understaffed.

@Toddlerteaplease I’m not saying the nurse was wrong. I’m saying to leave a small child sobbing in pain for 6 hours because they can’t find anyone to prescribe IBUPROFEN is obscene. Particularly if the day before you had been given a huge lecture about not missing any pain meds under any circumstances. That poor child had been nil by mouth for 16 hours too, so was starving and in agony. Just not good enough!!

No. The nurse should have gone to find a doctor if one wasn't coming. That's what I would have done.

I’m so sorry to hear of the poor care you’ve seen for your husband and the other patient.

As other posters have said, staff seem to be marvellous or awful. Excellent generally in A and E and watched them save my son’s life in resus. Pretty good in urology too and my son’s surgeon a lovely bloke (and seems to have done a good job!)

Some of the nurses who “cared” for my grandparents were in the wrong job. My grandad, post operation, pneumonia and barely clinging to life, had a meal plonked in front of him. He couldn’t even open his eyes. An hour later, the plate was removed with a bellowed “Not hungry, Mr Hen?” I think a lot of old people starve to death.

I was told my grandma (unconscious and died hours later) would be up and reading magazine soon. She was moaning in pain, which the nurses denied. I told them it was unlikely she would be reading as she was blind. That wasn’t even in her notes.

I'm sorry to hear this OP, it is outrageous that you and your DH are being treated like this at this time of terrible stress.

I'm afraid that having navigated my way through the NHS with several elderly relatives during the last decade I had absolutely no illusions left about the NHS at all. I can only assume that these people who think it's wonderful have never had to engage with it at anything other than the most superficial level.

I won't go into the details of my elderly DFs last experience at our local hospital but the way he was treated by the nursing staff was downright neglect, lacking the most basic level of humanity and patient care.

Luckily he is in pretty good shape but he has basically begged me to make sure that he never has to go back there, if I can possibly avoid it.

There are serious problems in the NHS, and they need to be addressed. The fact that parts of the NHS are very good should not mean that we are not 'allowed' to criticise and complain about the bits that are appalling.

Why anyone still believes it is the envy of the world is completely beyond me.

Sorry that is awful op.

I was on a ward with a lady with terminal cancer. Lovely she was, anyway told me a story of being in A&E for her husband and they would not discharge him, knowing she had terminal cancer and was so very poorly. This went on and on, until she said I want to speak to the doctor directly.

She got on the phone and he said well I've got x number of other patients who are a priority. She said no I'm your priority right now, you do what you need to do to get here. She said she never saw a doctor get there so quickly.

This from lady who came round from surgery and all she was saying whilst completely out of it was thank you to the nurses and staff and all she wanted was a glass of water. She was really pushed to breaking point.

I don't advocate telling drs what to do but I think humanity has to win through.