No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

I think many people are going to get caught out by this going forward. At the height of COVID (and who knows actually where we are with it all) there was very much a viewpoint that wfh would be in place for the future. For some yes and for others no and I’m hearing of lots of flip flopping around with it from various friends and their respective workplaces. But realistically it was never guaranteed indefinitely.

Try and look at it that it stimulated you into a buying your first home and you are loving that. Things may change, you may even move job or not. You may have to learn to commute etc but it’s created a good life change in one positive way and the rest may follow.

Sadly, I think employers hold all the cards now. There are so many people looking for work, they have choice of the cream of the crop. I would not move house on the basis of working from home, you would need the employer/company to agree to a change of your employment contract. They have to agree to let you work from home permanently and you need to get that in writing.

I don't know anyone going back to f/t in the office except teachers.

buggerbognor. Love the name! But I do agree with previous post. Childcare does encompass after and preschool clubs, grandparents help etc to help with childcare after school hours when employees are commuting. So I don’t think it is an unreasonable question to ask as these things have to be booked.

@BuggerBognor

I think the tide is turning back the other way tbh OP. A couple of my direct reports were asking me whether the wfh policy would change because they needed to know sort childcare from September. Which boggled me because you need childcare in order to wfh. We’re revising the policy but it will be minimum 60% office working.

I’ve heard people say that they need to sort childcare if they can’t wfh too. I really don’t get it either because you are either working or looking after kids - you would be doing a half arsed attempt at both doing them at the same time. I know lots of us had to when childcare was closed but employers were generous to allow it at that point and if people think that is an ok arrangement going forward then it’s no wonder some employers don’t trust staff and want them back in the office!

I think with childcare it depends on their ages. Mine are 7 and 9. We used to drop kids at a childminder at 8am on the way to work, but now one of us walks them to school and is back home working at 9. It's not so much to save money, just It's nice to take them in ourselves. If we both have to travel to work again, obviously we will use the childminder more, but we would need to give her notice.

I do think it is odd that a company would go back to 100% in the office where people have been wfh for a year. That doesn’t mean they need to be fully wfh, but a hybrid model is so clearly the best all round option. We are going to allow up to 2 days from home and no core hours, and keeping under review to extend to 3 days.

It’s even more stupid to consult and then ignore. If you aren’t going to listen to staff, don’t consult them - pretty basic!

I’m also a bit confused by all the people on here who think that management must have a good reason to make their decision. They will have a reason, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a good one. It will probably be something around then thinking they cant trust some of their staff - but removing flex from all in that scenario isn’t the answer: you need to performance manage those that can’t be trusted! Of course they may genuinely have a good reason, but if it isn’t about trust why wouldn’t you communicate it?!

@WinstonsWeirdVole

My god, there are some miserable bastards on this thread! Do these people actually enjoy sitting in traffic every day inhaling petrol fumes then spending hours in a grim air-conditioned office with people they don't particularly like for five days a week? I can't understand the mindset of folks who think that everyone should unquestioningly accept their employers' demands, no matter the cost to their wellbeing. Heaven forbid people might actually want to consider their own health/the environment and not just blindly adhere to a completely outdated way of working that should have died out decades ago.

YANBU at all, OP - ignore these weirdos! Oh, and move to your competitor if you can.

No one is saying she has to unquestioningly accept her employer’s demands? She can choose to leave if she wants to, and if plenty of good talent do that, her employer may regret their decision.

Yeah so actually @Shamoo they went on to say they had some concerns around the behaviour of some employees not acting as professional or as engaged.

This doesn't resonate with me or the teams that I personally work with (apart from one awful slacker, but overall we work hard). They should tackle the issues with the people involved. They also send passive aggressive emails every so often which are clearly aimed at 1 or 2 people but include a threat to all.

I'm very much a 'WFH revolution' sceptic, but I still think the OP is getting a weirdly hard time here

All the threads along these lines are surprisingly aggressive. I think it's a combination of people forced to WFH when they hate it getting angry at anyone who's pushing for it to continue, people who worked outside the home throughout getting angry at people who WFH for a year and are still feeling hard done by because it's not long enough, and a minority who think that WFH wouldn't suit them so anyone who likes it must be Wrong.

That would be constructive unfair dismissal. I hope the OP and others are familiar with that legislation, and able to use it.

I'm no employment lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that being returned to the same duties you had before a pandemic came along and fucked everything up doesn't count as constructive dismissal. Even if OP's employers flat out stated that they were hoping some staff might quit I doubt she'd have a case.

[quote BuggerBognor]@HaveringWavering yes that’s a very fair point. I told them the truth - that we were working on a more flexible wfh policy but that at least 3 days in the office were still required, details tbc. Childcare-wise, it’s safest to assume FT childcare required 4”5 days a week (or Pat equivalent) - CEO wants to avoid Mondays and Fridays being like the Marie Celeste. The main reason for not wfh indefinitely is better collaboration cross-function so people will still be expected to keep their wfh days flexible.

Another driver for us is that we have a manufacturing site with workers who kept going throughout - it’s caused bad feeling, not entirely logically, but there is a perceived need to level up between office/factory.[/quote]
No, what I meant @BuggerBognor was “what did they say when you told them they had to get childcare NOW because they needed it just as much while WFH?”

”That would be constructive unfair dismissal. I hope the OP and others are familiar with that legislation, and able to use it.”

On what basis do you feel that in circumstances where WFH was clearly a temporary thing because of Covid, failure to make it permanent when it is no longer necessary is constructive dismissal?

Look, I get that it’s annoying, and perhaps it’s shortsighted of the employer, and perhaps they will lose good people and later regret it. But I think some people on this thread are completely pie in the sky about what the OP can actually do about it! She has no right to refuse to return, unless there is something contractual stating that her WFH is permanent. Therefore there is no point people on here making a thing about how unreasonable they believe the employer is. In circumstances where an employer is doing something you don’t like but is perfectly lawful there’s virtually nothing you can do about it except vote with your feet!

There are going to be jobs for people who prefer different styles of working. In the long run it will be better for the company if I go elsewhere, to work did a company with similar values. They will be better off with staff who share their, ahem, vision.

But I've been there for years and while no one is irreplaceable, I have very technical knowledge and long standing relationships that they won't be able to replicate overnight. I'm proud to say the colleagues who have also spoken up are all talented people.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I really hate employers who think they're all it and not bother listening

So do I, but we don't actually know that this is what's happened since listening and handing folk what they want aren't the same thing

It may be that they have listened, but found that - for whatever reason - having staff back in the workplace is the better approach for the business all round

If they really listened, there must be some sort of flexibility at least? Or explain why they can't do it now. If OP and colleagues can show that they got the work done and had increased productivity then there's no reason why not such flexibilities can be made. If as OP mentioned is the issue with some individuals then that must be taken up to these individuals. But anyways if the company completely refuses to be flexible and not adapt with the changing climate then they might loose the best of the best. Even before pandemic companies have been offering wfh and are flexible.

The sooner call centres return to their offices the better imho. Service from them has been largely dire as was evidenced by an earlier thread.

There is one other factor I almost forgot. Just before the pandemic I was being investigated re endometriosis. I lost 2 working days to it the previous year. Apparently the appointments will start again later this year.

Over the last year I would probably have had to take about 3 days off as a result of my symptoms. I've taken 0 days off because on those days I've worked comfortably from the couch and all the tasks were completed albeit it took me longer. I can't sit on a computer chair without feeling extreme discomfort if not pain. It is very hard for me but this year gave me the flexibility I needed.

OP yanbu really. As you say, what's the point of a consultation if it's going to be ignored? I think a lot of firms are probably quite keen to get people back in eg from a customer service pov as a pp referred to.

That said, how people have performed this year isn't really an accurate indication as to whether working from home is viable. There's been bereavements, childcare issues and all the stress of living through a pandemic. Probably understandable if people's minds aren't fully focused on their jobs all the time. It would be a shame for an employer to look at how isolated, stressed, grieving employees do and use that as a measure of what working from home means long term.

Like others I am sceptic of the wfh revolution really taking hold. My sceptical view is that employers who can easily dispose of office leases, or said leases are set to expire may seriously consider moving to a more flexible model. Many have leases for 5 plus years and the market for sub lease is negligible.

Winston, it's not the case of just accepting employers demands. A contract with your employer is a legal contract that you sign, that states usually that you will work to the demands of business. As an employee you don't have a choice unless you resign. Try getting another job in this climate where thousands are looking for work. If you think you can just waltz into your employer's office stating what you want. Good luck with that. Even unions have a hard time fighting for employees. I can also assure you that some businesses after having been in Lockdown are now hitting employees with new contracts, usually for less wages and worse conditions. This has happened to someone I know. People are lucky to have a job. I have no idea what you work at, but believe me, I know people who are really struggling to get employment after redundancy due to the Pandemic.

I don't mean to give anyone a hard time. I have perhaps just worked for more difficult employers in the past. If it was down to me, I think people should be given the option, but I've hardly worked for a business that really values it's employees. I should mention none of my former places of work are operating now.

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

It’s awful for the environment to have everyone WFH and heating their individual houses too. Maybe look for a new job WFH if that’s what you want, as your employers clearly want you back in the office.

I've worked from home the whole time and switched on my heating four times this year.... maybe sort out your insulation

That sucks tbh but I'm not sure you can do anything as it's their choice as the employer. I do feel from you as I adore WFH.

I work for an large organisation who will phase back to 2/3 days in the office and the rest from home; and some people are moaning at that! I work in a collaborative team and I think that's the best balance longer term. At times it's been really difficult running creative workshops using online tools and we do need some face to face time.

There is major reorganisation going on at the moment and some people are voting with their feet. I know a few people that have secured new roles 100% remote/with a couple of days per month in the office. They are definitely there if you want that. Longer term I think it's exciting for me as working practice changes will open up the variety of London based tech roles but predominantly remote.

I agree with pp that there will be two types of employer and the less flexible ones will lose the best candidates. Good luck in finding a more permanent flexible role.

Our HR guy who has his finger on the pulse in a progressive company (B corp, organic, new green technologies, yada yada) said working from home will be the norm in the future. My place is playing with a booking system and using the office as a hub. Si don't think you made an unreasonable assumption but there's not much you can do except change jobs.