No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

[Viviennemary]

It sounds as if they have had second thoughts. Personally, I think there are quite a few drawbacks with working from home. They might not be apparent for a few years. But I think they need to be flexible.

[user1487194234]

TBH I thought my staff did pretty well all things considered,but overall it was just not as effective
I really need everyone back so we can hit the ground running and make sure the business survives or we will all be out of a job

[flowery]

”I’m not sure on the law or if there even is any specifically dealing with wfh however, there are certainly laws that force employers to consider flexible working and that should not be unreasonably withheld (after you’ve been with a company a year I think it is). I work with employment lawyers.”

You may “work with employment lawyers” but as you said, you are “not sure on the law”.

There are eight reasons an employer can refuse flexible working and it is really not difficult to find one of them that applies. And unless there is some discrimination involved, a tribunal won’t tell an employer they have to agree a request so in practical terms there’s very little anyone can do about it if a flexible working request is refused.

OP’s employer may be being shortsighted. They may well lose staff because of this, which they may or may not be bothered by.

There will be a reason for the decision, which may or may not be worth the damage to employee engagement.

But that doesn’t change the fact that a decision has been made.

[HalzTangz]

@Lizzie523

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

Why would you move further away from work, surely you would have anticipated a full return to office until otherwise told in writing. Discussions are just that, discussions that can have any number of outcomes.

[Needanewhat]

I also think "staff weren't answering the phone straight away" is pathetic. Are they your employees or your children?

Obviously customer service is a bit different but a manager just getting generally cheesed off because their direct report isn't answering the phone straight away is honestly absurd.

I hired a new direct report recently and although she knew we worked flexibly I don't think she quite got it, as so many places say they offer flexible working but actually don't. So she'd ask my permission to finish early to collect her child if after school club was cancelled etc. I had to tell her so many times - do what you need to. You're You're adult. I trust you to get the work done. I'm not going to be sitting there all "oh you owe me an hour tomorrow now because you finished at 4 today." Who the hell has time for that? Why should I care as long as she is getting the work done?

Our staff turnover is very, very low. Particularly for the sector.

[WinstonsWeirdVole]

My god, there are some miserable bastards on this thread! Do these people actually enjoy sitting in traffic every day inhaling petrol fumes then spending hours in a grim air-conditioned office with people they don't particularly like for five days a week? I can't understand the mindset of folks who think that everyone should unquestioningly accept their employers' demands, no matter the cost to their wellbeing. Heaven forbid people might actually want to consider their own health/the environment and not just blindly adhere to a completely outdated way of working that should have died out decades ago.

YANBU at all, OP - ignore these weirdos! Oh, and move to your competitor if you can.

[littlepattilou]

@Lizzie523 Oh how disappointing for you

I know quite a few people who have been WFH for the past year, and they have got used to it, and love it. My DD and her boyfriend both WFH now, (different places,) and the companies have said they can continue to work from home if they want, but please come in to the office, for half a day, to one day a week.

Around half of my DD's colleagues (120 in all) are going back to the office for all their hours, a quarter are doing half and half, and the other quarter are just staying with WFH, (with the one morning or afternoon a week in the actual office.)

As a few people have said, it's untenable for everyone to WFH long term, as society, retail, and the service industry etc, needs people back, but I see no harm in letting people do half the week at home.

Bit of a bummer that you moved house! Is there no way you can do just 2 or 3 days in the office? If not, then you will need to start looking for a job closer to you (if the commute is too much.)

Good luck!!!

[Lizzie523]

That's another thing @Spinningaround21. The office IS small for the staff they have, with poor ventilation

I won't be fully vaccinated by then either, same as several others. They said they will do risk assessment but it does worry me.

[Hardbackwriter]

I'm very much a 'WFH revolution' sceptic, but I still think the OP is getting a weirdly hard time here - senior management are entitled to have a full return policy, but they've handled it so badly. Consulting and then publicly ignoring the consultation with no further communication to explain why is a terrible look.

The problem with looking for new jobs right now, though, is that you don't want the same thing to happen again - you need somewhere where they've made a final decision on flexible working that will be written into your contract. That might be easier to do for fully remote than for any sort of hybrid - you don't want to find that the time you're required to be in slowly creeps up or that there's a change in policy allowed under a vaguely worded contract. Or you could ask for a formal commitment that you WFH however many days a week as part of the negotiation when accepting a job, just as people did pre-pandemic, and hopefully with a higher chance of success.

[user1487194234]

A lot of people complain about interruptions when in the office,which they don’t get when WFH
But often interruptions are part of the job eg helping colleagues,collaborative approach etc
I spend a lot of my day talking with colleagues but it’s mainly about work

[YouShouldSeeMyNewHouse]

These threads always attract posters who relish raining on the op’s parade. Same comments every time, which basically boil down to ‘boss knows best’. The poor handling of this situation - allowing employees to think they’re getting a valued change to their working pattern, and then whisking it away before it’s even been trialled - shows that this particular company isn’t particularly skilled in managing people. And as a result I’d be doubting that this decision isn’t just based on at least one of the usual suspects: presenteeism, micromanagement, resistance to change.

Op, look elsewhere. Being able to wfh at least some of the week was increasingly common well before Covid. Disappointing for those posters who like work to be a miserable slog where anything that gives employees satisfaction is automatically suspect, I’m sure, but a fact.

[HaveringWavering]

OP you say you’ve had lots of new staff join over lockdown. Perhaps the employer wants them to have the same opportunity you once had to meet colleagues in person and feel properly integrated into the company. Also, how did you learn your job when you were young and junior? It’s possible that less experienced staff need to be around people like you to help them develop and work effectively.

Interesting that you say that working from an office is not inclusive for disabled people. Surely that depends on the disability? For some people they may find that doing all their meetings via a screen exacerbates problems caused by their disability, and I know that my wheelchair-user brother is happier moving freely round wide office corridors than he is being cooped up at home all day. Do you mean that some disabilities make commuting more onerous? If that is the case those people probably already lived nearer the office and we’re doing the travel pre-pandemic. They could make an individual case based on reasonable adjustments, so no need for a blanket policy to cater for them.

I do empathise with your frustration, and find it surprising that the company has given no reason for the decision, but at the end of the day your only option is to vote with your feet.

[Lizzie523]

To all the people asking why I made that geographical move - because I was tired of renting and was ready to buy my first home. I could not buy in a nearby area to work due to the huge expense. I am happy living here, I love my home and have great amenities.

I can do the commute if I need to but the thought of having to do it 5 days a week when weighed up... I'd rather take my chances elsewhere if I can find a good offer.

[sogi]

@Livelovebehappy

I work for a bank, and we also have had consultations about who wants to return to work or not after wfh for a year. Surprisingly half the staff wanted to return to the office - mostly the younger ones, as I guess the young people miss the social aspect. But I’m the other side of 40 and can live quite happily without the office politics I’ve lived with for 20 years, so ive been given the opportunity to wfh full time. The split def appears to be that the older ones prefer to continue to wfh.

This is the thing that actually concerns me.
I'm sure yes, after a 20yr or so slog it's nice enough to have no commute/ corridor small talk/ Janices bake-off tasting session or another flipping collection for someone's birthday.

But....How are people starting out in they're careers going to truly benefit from others with experience? regardless of what industry you are in communication & building relationships is key- you simply cannot observe & learn the nuances of relationship building with half the organisation offsite or on a bleeding zoom.

It's not all about young people wanting after work drinks. These young people will inevitably be mgmt too at some point ?

[Lizzie523]

Very good point @Hardbackwriter. I will bear this in mind.

[Needanewhat]

I do a lot of consultancy work on employee wellbeing, staff retention and flexible working and there has always been SO much resistance to home working from certain employers.

"How do we know they're not watching TV?"

If the work gets done, who the fuck cares?! Your employees are adults. Let them arrange their own day and trust them to do it in a way that works.

This morning I took my son (who is home educated) to the natural history museum. Got home, colleague sent me a text saying could we have a quick Skype on an urgent matter - I was speaking to her within a minute of receiving that text. Did a couple of hours while DS was playing, stopped for bedtime and dinner. Did another hour in the evening.

No one checking up on me. No boss getting irate because I wasn't online at 3pm (or whatever).

[Lizzie523]

I've been mentoring a less experienced member of staff who has confided she is really disappointed with this decision too. She has hinted she will probably move on.

I believe time in the office is important for new starts in particular but that is where flexibility should come in to play. It doesn't mean it needs to happen 5 days a week - that time would be carved out and we would come into the office accordingly.

[Pyewackect]

Look for another job. There’s plenty of organisations offered flexible work patterns. My Husbands firm renegaded on their commitment to flexible working and have lost a number of key people. And don’t forget , social distancing still applies.

[MmeLaraque]

@NothingIsWrong

I wonder if they are actively trying to reduce the head count without paying redundancy.

That would be constructive unfair dismissal. I hope the OP and others are familiar with that legislation, and able to use it.

[YouShouldSeeMyNewHouse]

Yes, even new starters, young people entering the workplace for the first time and those mentoring these employees don’t need to be in the office five days a week (assuming the work can otherwise be done remotely). It’s like we simply can’t let go of old habits and think about new ways of doing things.

Even if young people really did need five days in during the first couple of years, it’s so disproportionate to have everyone in all week for the duration of the decades they work overall. There has to be a smarter way of organising work than that.

Unfortunately, I think this mindset is so widespread that I’m also sceptical about a wholesale, lasting change to how we work. Which is why I’d seek out the sort of organisation that thinks differently. And if you’re in a strong bargaining position, negotiate this into your contract at the outset as a pp suggests. Good luck!

[JingsMahBucket]

@YouShouldSeeMyNewHouse
These threads always attract posters who relish raining on the op’s parade. Same comments every time, which basically boil down to ‘boss knows best’.

Definitely. These threads always bring out the micro managers. They’re probably also the same posters who bleat on about not believing there are high earners posting on MN because they would be nose to the grind working. It’s been pointed out recently that people at certain levels in companies, freelancers or consultants actually have much more command of their time and aren’t monitored strictly. As long as the work gets done, that’s all that matters.

[Hardbackwriter]

That would be constructive unfair dismissal. I hope the OP and others are familiar with that legislation, and able to use it.

But it's a return to original conditions accepted by employees,not a change to them, and it sounds like it's blanket so clearly not targeted at an individual. That's a total non-starter.

[SunglassesSeventy]

Resistance to working from home baffles me. It's so much harder to get work done in an open-plan office than it is at home.

In the office there are some (quite enjoyable) distractions, people chatting, going for tea breaks together, someone celebrating a birthday, someone else bringing in cake for everyone, etc etc.

And everyone has phones and the internet in the office. If you're a slacker you could easily kill time with a combination of going for tea breaks, chatting to colleagues at their desks, sitting on the loo on your phone, using the internet for a bit of procrastination.

Slackers will slack whether they're at home or in the office, and committed workers will do their jobs in the best way they can with the limitations of the office or home (both environments have pros and cons).

Good managers trust their employees and recognise that offering flexibility is more inclusive and attracts and retains better candidates.

[HaveringWavering]

A couple of my direct reports were asking me whether the wfh policy would change because they needed to know sort childcare from September. Which boggled me because you need childcare in order to wfh.

@BuggerBognor so what did they say when you pointed this out?

Is it not more likely that what they meant was that they would need to know how much childcare to sort from September, because they might not have to account for a commute and might, for example, no longer have to pay for breakfast or after school club?