No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

@Squish122 my workplace is in the middle of nowhere with no local cafe so I need to bring lunch every day.

On the other hand I live next to a few small cafes so I feel I'm contributing more where I am on a weekly basis. I may be in the minority.

Totally agree @BeautifulandWilfulandDead. The best part is they are never done talking about the importance of our wellbeing. It is nothing more than a box ticking exercise.

I may be in the minority.

Well of course you are. Must offices are in urban areas.

@TheKeatingFive

I may be in the minority.

Well of course you are. Must offices are in urban areas.

A lot are on business parks miles from anywhere (or at least not very accessible by public transport and completely bereft of any cafes etc, you sometimes get a coffee/sandwich van if you are lucky).

Most of those have some sort of catering in my experience

The local business park near where I am does not have a cafe, bike-rack or changing rooms and showers - it is highly car dependant since the nearest bus route is ~ 200 m from the park and is in front of a school.

Most business parks I've seen seem to be built with little heed to transportation other than a car and nothing to encourage human powered commuting. Nor do they engage much with existing local businesses and services to interact with the site.

It's almost if they are built to look good to business rather than to actually work for business or the people who work there.

Also, why recruit people you don't trust to do the job? Projection much?

Top-down management only is on the way out when more collaborative two-way models work much better. I don't miss my brief, unpleasant interactions with corporate culture one bit.

@UserAtRandom

Most people I know who don't work in London, live within 10-15 minutes drive of the office. Many of them walk or cycle.

I live in Birmingham, not London, and haven't worked for over 10 years but when I was at work 20mins drive was the shortest journey to work I ever had, most being in excess of an hour's drive. I truly think its a very small proportion of the UK's workforce that are lucky enough to have a maximum of 15mins commute!

I think the best way is to vote with your feet OP, if your employer isn't prepared to be flexible then they will lose talent to their competitors - despite it being an unpopular opinion WFH is what a lot of people want. They'll see sense eventually but by that time it won't be your problem

You can request flexible working or WFH on an individual basis. The Company then have to provide a reason why you can't. If you've been doing it for six months you have a good argument. However, you also need to meet Health and Safety requirements for them to be able to let you. You'll need an appropriate office chair and a desk to work from as you do in an office. They can fund this but most would argue you don't qualify instead! They might be Ok with you working from home but just don't want the hassle of doing it for everyone.

@Bluedeblue

Going forwards employers will have to be more flexible to attract staff

They really won't. It's an employers market at the moment. I know people with degrees that can't get a minimum wage job just now.

It really isnt its a Employee's market at the moment

Them out of work looking for work and them who have worked throughout will have watched colleagues hand in resignations for something better or different and will be doing the same

As a result employee's have the pick of the cherry and can decide without held hostage by a emploer or a future one

I think it's massively short sighted of them. I have been WFH since last Feb. Pre covid I was at home two days a week.

I work for a large organisation who are amazingly flexible. We have been asked to return to the office for a minimum of one day a week from September, we can choose to stay at home or go to the office between now and then. How many days we do over the minimum is personal choice.

We have been assured appraisals/annual reviews will not be impacted at all be our presence in the office.

I probably get 3 or 4 emails a day via linkedin from recruiters with possible opportunities and the most I have seen is a requirement for 2 days a week in the office.

@DicklessWonder

As above, cars don’t like being driven. On a WFH day I take my car out for a blast at night so the engine doesn’t seize/DPF get blocked. Triple whammy: office heated for 3 rather than 15 people, house heated for 1 and car pumping out of an evening as well.

What kind of crappy car do you have if it can't cope with not being driven for a single day? What do you do when you go on holiday or get ill, hire a babysitter for it? I think you need a new car.

@TheKeatingFive

En Masse it won't work out well for employers.

I totally agree with you.

I think the time frame will be a bit longer though as companies try hybrid models and then eventually give up on them. I think two years from now we’ll be back to 2019 patterns with maybe a bit of flex for 1 day wfh a week.

Totally agree. Sadly we will eventually go back to the ways of 2019. I've a feeling that this will happen very quickly. It will become important to show face again.

What kind of crappy car do you have if it can't cope with not being driven for a single day? What do you do when you go on holiday or get ill, hire a babysitter for it? I think you need a new car.

I’ve 2 cars - one diesel 4x4 and one petrol sports car. Usually do about 12-15,000 miles a year in each.

It wasn’t a single day, but several single days, growing to weeks and months with only local (essential) journeys being undertaken. Not good for a 10 year old diesel used to being on the motorway for 30-50 miles at a time. Still had the original DPF on it, which ended up needing some serious work at a cost of £££.

I used the sports car more making use of the quieter roads. That one was fine.

@NewMatress

I don't think employers who want people in the office will suffer. They'll get the people who want to be at work, the ones who enjoy interacting with colleagues and developing/mentoring new staff, the ones who like networking events, the ones for whom work is an important part of their life etc. The ones who encourage a lot of home working will get the people who'd rather not be working at all.

I agree with your sentiment, however, people invested in their careers have to understand outside of 9-5 some people do have a life outside of 'The business'.

The girlfriend's manager and her immediate Director are often working till 1-2 am. That's just absurd.
The girlfriend whilst working from home normally did from 8 am-7 pm, her office hours are 9 am-5 pm.

@DicklessWonder ahh, fair enough. It was the bit where you said that you go for a drive in the evenings whenever you have a WFH day that must have confused me...

I do. Partly for fun. Partly to stop batteries dying. Partly to keep the DPF clean.

My company segmented teams based on how frequently they needed to be in the office, based on the jobs they do.
My return to the office will likely be 1 day a week. This makes sense to me and it is a logical approach.
Some businesses seem to be pinging back to pre-covid ways without having realised the world has changed.
We should give staff as much flexibility as is possible for their jobs. We should make sure people who need workspace or access to others to learn from them, can get it. Otherwise where possible we should trust staff to get on with their jobs wherever they are, if you are a good manager you know who is and is not performing.
For many jobs the technology now exists that enables flexibility. We should embrace this rather than revert to old ways without good reason. Both the low carbon transition and people's well-being demand this.
The key thing is explaining openly and honestly about what the office requirements are, and why, rather than one size fits all. Too often decisions are based on bosses who feel more secure by seeing lots of people working around them - When this is not a real indicator of productivity.

@DicklessWonder

I do. Partly for fun. Partly to stop batteries dying. Partly to keep the DPF clean.

That may be, but it's not a good argument to say that because you do that, WFH has the same environmental impact as commuting by car. Most people who WFH are not going for a commute-length drive every evening, because their vehicles can cope with being stood still for a few days.

I didn't commute by car before (I used a combination of bike and train), and I don't feel the need to drive every day, so my car use is roughly the same whether I am WFH or not. But at a population level, enough people do commute by car to mean that lots of people WFH will reduce vehicle emissions overall.

I haven't RTFT but would imagine that companies that don't offer flexible working will be less attractive. And people will leave. My employer has been very clear that flexible/agile working is the way forward (already had work life balance policies - I've WFH for one of my 3 days a wk since mat leave 14 years ago).

Played a huge part in my staying with employer.

Generally speaking staff retention is important but sometimes people can get a bit stuck in their ways and if they leave you can bring in nee people with new ideas
Inevitably some people who work from home will be working in their silo and not adding to the group creative effort
I will of course look at individual flexible working requests but essentially I want everyone back to get the business up to speed and if people choose to leave I don’t think I’ll struggle to replace them
Individuals of course must protect their work life balance but employers must look after the business or everyone will be out of a job

@user1487194234

Generally speaking staff retention is important but sometimes people can get a bit stuck in their ways and if they leave you can bring in nee people with new ideas Inevitably some people who work from home will be working in their silo and not adding to the group creative effort I will of course look at individual flexible working requests but essentially I want everyone back to get the business up to speed and if people choose to leave I don’t think I’ll struggle to replace them Individuals of course must protect their work life balance but employers must look after the business or everyone will be out of a job

'Individuals of course must protect their work life balance but employers must look after the business or everyone will be out of a job'.

And that is the crux of the matter. Groups of individuals make up families, for too long, businesses have insisted on being the priority over and above relationship, families, life goals, etc.

Businesses disguise working hrs as 9-5 yet this has been removed slowly, so much so that business now intrudes too much into people's personal lives.

Business needs to wake up just like people have during this pandemic, get back to 9-5 and stop the mindset of ownership over employees.

Shame for them to not be even a tiny bit flexible.

But, I'm not entirely surprised. I had a very interesting conversation with someone who consults on productivity and she said that whilst some companies have been just as or more productive in covid, many have not, even though the employees think they have been.

Shame for them to not be even a tiny bit flexible

They probably will be once they have pissed off/shed a load of staff

even though the employees think they have been

Yes, I wonder to what extent people saying ‘all my colleagues agree we are so much more productive WFH’ just means, ‘we like working from home and don’t want it to stop’