No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

I think you are right that most employers are encouraging WFH post pandemic to save on office costs.
We have been told WFH will be the default position in the future and need a reason to come into office (my employers want to sell office site they own)

Most of my friends and relatives employers have adopted a more hybrid approach splitting the week between home and office.
I get its annoying especially if your employers have backtracked but your only option is to look for another job that allows more WFH.
TBF moving away to such a distance to make commuting a pain before it had been made official that WFH was official post pandemic was a risk.

I’ll be in office 2/3 days

Anyone forgotten how lovely it is to leave your house in the morning for work
And then get back at the end of the day and for it to still be as clean and tidy as you left it (assuming that it was clean and tidy!).
I love that.

[quote user8783]@castemary I understand, I completely agree. As it happens a close friend works for an emergency services call centre (but it's not her whole job) and it's not pleasant, difficult calls, but much prefers working from home, not yet clear if they'll be allowed to post Covid, their output stats are excellent (better than pre Covid although hard to measure due to number of incidences being less during Covid), but old school management probably won't allow it, with very little justification.[/quote]
Surely it will have been a tiny fraction during lockdown?

[quote user8783]@Fishandhips yes it's been very new to them, access to the police database all being done at home since last March, they didn't bring them back when restrictions lifted, all auditable though of course. Military staff have been working from home some of which will have access to the highest levels of sensitive data. It goes on more than people think.[/quote]
Information security is just another ball game, but I mean speaking on the phone etc to people who have an expectation of confidentiality that they may not get when someone is working from home.

@Egghead81 sorry what do you mean?

In my experience some employees take the p*ss when working from home.

Obviously some don't, its a very personal ethical issue. However, it's really hard to manage when you have say two employees who are productive and conscientious when working from home, and others who disappear off the radar completely for days on end and deliver very little.

In this day and age of equality and diversity it's very hard for a boss to even challenge any working practice in the event that someone has an additional health need (about 50% where I worked).

In the end, my employers pulled us all back from flexibility and WFH and I'm pretty sure this was because managers found it too hard to keep having difficult conversations with employees with very different expectations of work ethic.

It was a very sad conclusion but seemed the only way it was possible to avoid 1/3 of my team doing all the work and the rest skiving. I knew that two of them worked better from home and would love to have let them. But a different two of my team were almost openly taking the p*ss. One was literally always walking the dog when I called, and clocking off at 3pm when there were deadlines to meet (not having started early). Another one seemed to be a compulsive liar and had multiple different stories as to where she had been, in a super confrontational way.

They were also the first ones "up in arms" at any even implied differential between working conditions amongst a team. They were aggressive and nasty - as a boss it felt like the coordination of people's whereabouts took more time than the actual work.

All I'm saying is that it may not be you. You might be more productive, but some people just cannot rise to the occasion. And so we all tramp back to the office. 🙄

* better than pre Covid although hard to measure due to number of incidences being less during Covid*

Less is an understatement
I don’t think at all an accurate reflection in stats

@Fishandhips well yes of course that's the expectation, same with social workers working from home, HR staff, GPs etc. Lots of confidential conversations will have been happening at home, I'm not sure what mitigations organisations put in place but it'll be happening a lot.

@angela99999 why do you doubt people are productive at home? And for other people who feel this way...again why?

For me - my first ever job began at home. I did the job online for 2 years while I completed my studies. Then I went to work in the office. I've effectively WFH on and off for 13 years - and I found the shift quite easy.

I work as I ever did in the office with the occasional 'coffee break' in the kitchen. Sometimes I go for a walk on the park at lunch which helps my mental health. At work I am surrounded by factories and pavement.

My ideal job would be a hybrid model. So I'll just my best to find that. I think that after being self employed for 2 years I have a problem with being dictated to - I am well aware of the pitfalls of freelancing but I don't like having a boss much either.

@NothingIsWrong

I wonder if they are actively trying to reduce the head count without paying redundancy.

I wondered this, particularly if business is slack. Hopefully this isn't the case but goes to show that businesses have to maintain their competitive edge to survive, and maybe WFH wasn't really working for the OP's company. Personally during the various lockdowns, I experienced several examples of poor customer service, mainly due to no-one being available to answer phones or bothering to reply to emails. Businesses that have been run like this the past year or so deserve to fail.

I started a job during the pandemic and it was advertised as a remote working position.
A few months ago, they advertised the job - as a full time office based job.
Nobody applied and the position was never filled.
We are all still working from home.

Vote with your feet!!!

@Egghead81 tiny fraction is an overstatement, no denying there have been less crimes, but it hasn't reduced that much sadly I know she's still been very busy. I will ask how much they have reduced, I'd be interested to know.

And then get back at the end of the day and for it to still be as clean and tidy as you left it (assuming that it was clean and tidy!).

DH and DD were always home before me. This never happened for me.

I understand @anon666. I would say out of the entire team there is one person who takes the piss and doesn't have much of a work ethic as it is. They themselves have said they need to be in the office to do the job.

So I do understand an employer's struggle in this way. But it also reminds me of being at school when everyone would get punished for something one person had done.

Time to move. Hybrid/Flexible working is the future.

In my experience some employees take the pss when working from home.*

In my experience, those people also take the piss when working in the office.

@Lizzie523 It was exactly like that. I felt so rubbish about it, especially for the two that were more productive at home.

As for the one who kept going AWOL, she kept having rows with everyone, she was a bit of a nut job.

I knew that two of them worked better from home and would love to have let them. But a different two of my team were almost openly taking the pss*

So you punish the first two (and actually reduce their productivity) because you (or your company, I don't mean you personally) wouldn't manage the other two?

[quote Lizzie523]@angela99999 why do you doubt people are productive at home? And for other people who feel this way...again why?

For me - my first ever job began at home. I did the job online for 2 years while I completed my studies. Then I went to work in the office. I've effectively WFH on and off for 13 years - and I found the shift quite easy.

I work as I ever did in the office with the occasional 'coffee break' in the kitchen. Sometimes I go for a walk on the park at lunch which helps my mental health. At work I am surrounded by factories and pavement.

My ideal job would be a hybrid model. So I'll just my best to find that. I think that after being self employed for 2 years I have a problem with being dictated to - I am well aware of the pitfalls of freelancing but I don't like having a boss much either.[/quote]
I think you're probably much more conciencious than most @Lizzie523

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8916/

The government message is to still work from home. You can refuse to go to work if you feel unsafe.

Legally, a company is obliged to consider a request for flexible working. It needs a good business reason to turn it down (www.gov.uk/flexible-working)

I'd be looking for a new job, myself, though that may just be what they want. I'd also suggest joining a union and encouraging your co-workers to do the same.

I think you're probably much more conciencious than most

Some people will always be more conscientious than others whether at home or in the office.
Its up to management to actively promote and manage good performance and its not a good reflection on management if their management team can only do this by standing over their team.

IMO the majority of those advocating going back to the office full time are middle management, who without the need to stand over people, are now dispensable.

@HaveringWavering

But John, whose wife is a sahm who’s got used to not having to walk. Both ends of the school day, with no flexibility from his side if I need to put something in the calendar at 9 or 3. Younger kids around all day and interrupting.

@PinkTonic I keep looking at this and I still can’t work out what you mean about John. Why does his wife not wanting to walk the school run affect his availability? If she is a SAHM why are his kids interrupting? I’m baffled!

He’s started doing the drop offs and pick ups every day so she doesn’t have to walk, presumably she can’t drive. They also have pre-school children at home and who play in the room and interrupt him during calls etc. What is baffling to me is why he would think this is sustainable long term.

@anon666

In my experience some employees take the p*ss when working from home.

Obviously some don't, its a very personal ethical issue. However, it's really hard to manage when you have say two employees who are productive and conscientious when working from home, and others who disappear off the radar completely for days on end and deliver very little.

In this day and age of equality and diversity it's very hard for a boss to even challenge any working practice in the event that someone has an additional health need (about 50% where I worked).

In the end, my employers pulled us all back from flexibility and WFH and I'm pretty sure this was because managers found it too hard to keep having difficult conversations with employees with very different expectations of work ethic.

It was a very sad conclusion but seemed the only way it was possible to avoid 1/3 of my team doing all the work and the rest skiving. I knew that two of them worked better from home and would love to have let them. But a different two of my team were almost openly taking the p*ss. One was literally always walking the dog when I called, and clocking off at 3pm when there were deadlines to meet (not having started early). Another one seemed to be a compulsive liar and had multiple different stories as to where she had been, in a super confrontational way.

They were also the first ones "up in arms" at any even implied differential between working conditions amongst a team. They were aggressive and nasty - as a boss it felt like the coordination of people's whereabouts took more time than the actual work.

All I'm saying is that it may not be you. You might be more productive, but some people just cannot rise to the occasion. And so we all tramp back to the office. 🙄

Hmmm.. I think you're saying that managers at your company need to learn how to have those difficult conversations, and to put people who consistently underperform onto performance management, then fire them if they continuously fail.
It is harder to manage a poorly performing team wherever they are, and obviously much harder if you can't see them. The cure is to create a performing team, not to make the good performers work in ways which may not suit them.

Yes that seems mad to me. Why not suit your employees? We are going back with a mix of both and I think everyone wins. I know in my heart that I am more productive at home and I save over an hour on the commute and we get to have tea together. Also I don't put the heating on and an often very cold!