No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

Both DJ and I will be hybrid permanently now. My days for working in my workplace will be semi fixed but flexibility offered. Allows me to figure out my childcare better, allows my colleague to care for her elderly mother and do appointments when necessary and allows my extremely clinically vulnerable colleague to work in a way that is safer for her. I definitely think the more future looking organisations will recognise that flexible, wfh and hybrid working are the way of the future

Re heating: Who heats their homes to office levels? ( Apart from my DMil but she's elderly.) I put on a jumper and wear big boot slippers.

We should all be investing in extra insulation anyway if we can.

@userxx

Dust your work clothes off and get your arse back in work. You're lucky to have had a year at home.

This!

No more sourdough and time with the "little family"

We were able to give up our lease on an expensive tax payer funded London office.

I assume you’re all going to lose your tax-payer funded London weighting now there’s no requirement for you to attend a London office?

@Bluedeblue

Going forwards employers will have to be more flexible to attract staff

They really won't. It's an employers market at the moment. I know people with degrees that can't get a minimum wage job just now.

It's really not an employer's market - skilled workers are in short supply - not all sectors suffered during the pandemic.

Laughing at ‘no business makes decisions for no good reason’

Isn't always a 'good' reason, but there usually is a reason for decisions whether we agree with it or not.

It beats me how young people are going to learn effectively from those who are adamant that wfh is just fine. Ds is job hunting and there seems to be a general freeze “until we know more”. One place said in normal times they would have opportunities but atm the office is closed.

Dh has been dealing with a lawyer who was moaning that his underlings were making mistakes. The lawyer was wfh in Devon and the underlings in the London office.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

I'm amazed how many people thought this pisstaking field day would last forever. Every single person says, 'I'm so much more productive at home' but customer service is in the toilet. It was stupid to have moved. So find another job then. There are lots of people in need of work just now, there's no one who isn't replaceable.

Their job is to run a business to maximum efficiency, not indulge your personal lives.

we don't all work in customer service. So what's that got to do with anything?

We already had a system where we could work from home occasionally as there are elements to my job that just work a bit better in a quiet space (we're in a large-ish open plan office). WFH has been, overall, very good, though not without challenges. We are - hopefully - implementing a hybrid model of working and are just purchasing the relevant tech to allow us to do that. The proposal is currently 3 days in the office and 2 at home though I'd prefer 3 at home and 2 in the office and I suspect that might be possible a little further down the line.

I do love my job but I have a very long commute that I don't miss one bit. I do also miss being in the city sometimes and seeing my colleagues so I'm looking forward to that bit, definitely, but the fact is that the section of the business I work in functions really well from home. Other parts of our business don't work quite as well - and they're all very keen to get back to the office.

Organisations are going to have to offer felixble working if they are be competetive in the workplace and wish to retain experienced and skilled employees. My husband's firm have gone back on their commitment of flexible working and have already lost several technical staff that they will find difficult to replace. To really rub it in , they've gone to work for a competitor. Doh !.

I would be reluctant to change jobs unless I have was very niche as you have limited employment rights for the first 2 years and if there is a recession you could be paid off with any redundancy

There will have to be some way of equalising pay.

I’d be pretty hacked off if a colleague were allowed to wfh because they had moved to the Outer Hebrides and had children to look after, but I, on the same level, were obliged to commute into the office because I lived in Surbiton.

@IrmaFayLear

It beats me how young people are going to learn effectively from those who are adamant that wfh is just fine. Ds is job hunting and there seems to be a general freeze “until we know more”. One place said in normal times they would have opportunities but atm the office is closed.

Dh has been dealing with a lawyer who was moaning that his underlings were making mistakes. The lawyer was wfh in Devon and the underlings in the London office.

now that's a very good point and one that I don't think I've seen a really, really good answer to. We've recruited several new staff and they're fitting in extremely well but they're not graduates or new to the roles. It also makes internships etc difficult - though I've seen a few interesting digital internships and would be very interested to see how they work out.

An awful lot of companies are now allowing more remote and flexible working patterns. This will be the norm going forward.

WFH clearly suits you so I would go and find an employer who shares the same set of values.

@user1487194234

I would be reluctant to change jobs unless I have was very niche as you have limited employment rights for the first 2 years and if there is a recession you could be paid off with any redundancy

If you are a talented employee - you'll get a job even in a recession. Employers get stuck with the lazy poor performers who don't move because they know the next employer will dump them pretty quickly before the 2 years are up.

@freckles20

Your employer pays your wages and runs the business. They can run it however they see fit. If you don't like if you are free to leave.

To those who have commented on my post above- it's a simple fact. It's not nice to have an employer who disregards their employees opinions, but it can and does happen. It's not my way of working either, I am extremely lucky, but the fact remains that an employer can make such decisions.

They don't own you, so you are free to leave. From what I can see though, in many industries it's currently an employer's market and the horrible regulations that make it incredibly easy to make an employer of less than two years redundant, (and more risky to make others redundant), mean that it can be a tricky move.

Of course they have to run the business in line with legislation, but there are now fewer and fewer reasons for genuinely requiring to wfh.

@Lizzie523

I also think it has to be at least partially dependent on what you do.

Just saying flat out no, no flexible working option is mad imo. It isn't inclusive for various reasons more important than mine.

It's not mad as it's not your business to run. Would you have even questioned it before Covid? Just because some businesses are allowing WFH doesn't mean all have to follow suit. Everyone was in the office before, things are back to 'normal' from June so they have a right to expect everyone back. If you don't like it then you need to find another job.

We've recruited several new staff and they're fitting in extremely well but they're not graduates or new to the roles. It also makes internships etc difficult - though I've seen a few interesting digital internships and would be very interested to see how they work out. We have too and they have fitted in well - but they were chosen for their excellent relationship building skills, so we'd expect them to slot into the team - the less experienced team member could do with more time with us - where he'd pick up on techniques and approaches more quickly - understand our thinking, talk through small wrinkles in a more casual (water cooler) setting.

I think your employer is in the minority OP and most are now looking at more flexible/hybrid/permanent wfh options.

I would be looking for another job if it doesn't suit you.

I think it will take a year or more for it all to settle down - and right now I reckon it's a 50/50 chance whether we'll all be back in the office 4-5 days a week by 2023 or whether 3-4 days remote working/full flexibility will become the norm. There are big pros and cons to each, and companies will inevitably copy their peers as it will impact recruitment, so I really think it could go either way.

We moved too, a bit too far to commute daily, but kept a flat in London. I'm glad I've got a year's maternity leave starting in July to see which way the balance tips.

My personal observation of productivity is that many of my colleagues are more productive "because there are fewer distractions". Unfortunately some of the things they consider to be distractions are colleagues asking for input, so if you're an unfortunate colleague whose job relies on collaborating with others, you are now spending all your time trying to get answers out of colleagues who want to focus on their own work and are not bothered about yours. So what would be a 2 minute conversation in the office (and I would pick my moment so as not to disturb them) can now take an hour or more in repeated chasing and trying to get time with them. I suspect OP's employers have started to look at the whole picture rather than the loud voices shouting how much more productive they are.

I’m amazed how many people thought this pisstaking field day would last forever. Every single person says, 'I'm so much more productive at home' but customer service is in the toilet.

I’ve found the opposite. Companies I’ve previously had to rely on for responses have been far more responsive working from home. I’ve actually had more problems where companies are not working at home.

You also can’t assume that any problems are because staff are working from home. Staff absence, furlough, staffing cuts are all a factor too.

There are many millions who’s job isn’t customer service either.

Where large organisations are moving their staff to WFH on a part time basis, you have to assume the overall experience for them is positive. There were organisations moving to that model long before Covid.

If you can’t work from home efficiently, that’s your problem.

@Lizzie523 I’m with you on this one Op. Its not everyone’s cup of tea but lots of people I have spoken to wfh has changed their life dramatically. Myself included. My life is so much better and my chronic pain from travelling and working in an office has gone, physically and mentally it’s been life changing for me and it would be nice to have the option to. They haven’t announced it yet but I’m hoping they can do part time home and office working. I’ll be leaving if not, my well-being is too important.

Oh for some perspective too I’m a data manager and the majority of it (95%) is independent working - of course with other jobs it would be much more unproductive to be at home rather than on site!

My work were being really dismissive in general and won't commit on any policy for flexible working, even after 15 months at home. They then said it would be 'manager discretion' rather than a policy for everyone, which just meant my entire team would have to come back into the city full-time as my manager lives 2 minutes from our office.

I have moved jobs because of this - new role is in the city but WFH 3 days a week permanently. Which is the mix I really want.

@UserAtRandom

My personal observation of productivity is that many of my colleagues are more productive "because there are fewer distractions". Unfortunately some of the things they consider to be distractions are colleagues asking for input, so if you're an unfortunate colleague whose job relies on collaborating with others, you are now spending all your time trying to get answers out of colleagues who want to focus on their own work and are not bothered about yours. So what would be a 2 minute conversation in the office (and I would pick my moment so as not to disturb them) can now take an hour or more in repeated chasing and trying to get time with them. I suspect OP's employers have started to look at the whole picture rather than the loud voices shouting how much more productive they are.

I agree.

Where collaboration, team work and frequent communication are important there are definite arguments that wfh is not ideal.

People have a right to prefer one or the other, or a hybrid- but that doesn't mean it's the best model for the company as a whole.