No more WFH or flexible working

[Lizzie523]

Been WFH for a year now - about 6 months ago the company MD said we had done brilliantly, was thrilled by how we had risen to the challenge etc. We were then told the future would likely be hybrid working & we all had to complete detailed consultations about our preferences RE this. Personally ive been more productive overall & I feel a mix would work well.

Imagine our shock to now be told we are all to go back to full time at the office 5 days a week. They said they would no longer consider the results of the consultations and wished they hadn't done it - many of us tried to appeal this but were just told 'no'.

I moved during the pandemic which means I am just far enough away that 5 days a week in the office is going to be a hassle (not to mention awful for the environment).

We work with a few people with young kids and it obviously isn't inclusive for disabled people either. Our main competitors have already confirmed their commitment to remote working.

Is everyone else headed back to the office or am I right in thinking most places are being more flexible now?

To be fair this thread did really well, it got all the way to page 11 before someone started spouting on about their hatred of extroverts...

I agree on looking for a new job. I've been having a few pre-interview discussions lately and "flexible working" is upfront and centre in most job adverts now. It is generally the first thing discussed when talking about a role.

It does seem incredibly naïve on the part of your employer. If nothing else, doing a consult which clearly shows the preference for flexible working, appearing to comply with that and then changing their mind with no clear messaging would, as a PP said, seem to indicate that they either don't care about employee satisfaction (a good enough reason to leave in itself) and/or are attempting a self selection process to slim down the workforce by assuming staff are going to leave. It seems guaranteed to upset.

On a general level, I've said this before, but there are really some huge advantages to home working. Cross regional collaboration (both intra and inter country) has never been better - it has really helped those of us who need to liaise with colleagues outside the office on a regular basis. Now everyone is on a (virtual) par it is so much easier than the meeting room/dial in split which was always appallingly one sided, with the non office people trying to desperately keen up. WFH has opened up so many collaboration routes, from virtual drinks with colleagues across 5 countries to saying hello to the COO's granddaughter. I also wanted to note that WFH is not a new thing - I have a vast number of US colleagues who have done it for all of their working life - they often live a plane ride from the "office". If it works for them, why not for us?

@Jenala My colleagues wanted to get back in because at work we all have 2 screens, incoming phone lines with hunt groups and the ability to transfer to each, physical files we all need access to, and space.

As much as I made the best of sitting at my dressing table on a stool with a laptop & a mobile phone when it was necessary, I much prefer being back at my actual desk.

Not everyone has the space or set up for a productive home office.

I would be disappointed if my company suddenly said no working from home too. They are planning a blended approach as well and have removed half of the desks from the office building to make room for group meeting spaces instead, as there will be fewer people to accommodate.

I would probably be looking at what jobs are available with the competitor.

@Tal45

My OH is working from home and will continue to, he already had a colleague that pre pandemic WFH. His commute was an hour and a half so it has been wonderful and neither of us would want to go back, it's cut his day by 3 hours. Our heating (solid fuel/storage heaters) is either on or off anyway so no impact there.

I'd start looking for a new job where you are trusted to work from home - and be clear when you leave that it is due to their inflexibility.

Out of interest if his employer supported full time working from home before the pandemic and he didn't want to do his commute why didn't he apply then?

OP perhaps overall productivity isn't improved. Maybe yours is but many aren't so they've decided they need everyone back to "make it fair" because they can't really only let the people who work from home well do it.

I suspect this is going to be a big factor. Which implies that a lot of up-front requests for full or mostly WFH are going to get shot down. Might be that the employees who really are better from home will need to take a longer view and try and get smaller concessions incrementally over time.

We were promised all sorts of flexibility during the first lockdown, maybe wfh one day a week or mornings at work and afternoon at home, but we are back in the office in a couple of weeks and this has all been quietly dropped.

My manager is a micromanaging control freak and that is reason why she wants us all back in the office even though our standard of work has remained the same throughout, i could understand if we were suddenly dropping the ball but we havent been.

She has been trying to get us back in the office full times since September but keeps getting blocked by the company who dont want us in till the government says so.

I will be putting in a request with HR to ask about WFH one day a week.

I just had a job interview and said I would only join if I could work 3 days at home two days in the office and they agreed to my proposal. Going forwards employers will have to be more flexible to attract staff.

I don't think this is a common experience though. And I'm not sure employers have to be more flexible. I've been WFH for over a year but if my employer says we go back then that's what I do.

How idiotic moving on the assumption that wfh would continue forever.

And all this “blended working”.... I bet everybody’ll be gasping to work Fridays - not.

Some people have thoroughly lost sight of the fact that they work for a business which has to make money and/or serve the public. In some cases wfh makes no difference, it in others it only suits the person who has decided it suits them.

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

It’s awful for the environment to have everyone WFH and heating their individual houses too. Maybe look for a new job WFH if that’s what you want, as your employers clearly want you back in the office.

As opposed to everyone going back to doing a daily commute in their cars. Hmmm ok

I am very much hoping we don't shift away from WFH as my office is near on 300 miles away

I am desperate to get back to work and out of this bloody house. I will be over the moon if we get back 5 days a week. Cant come soon enough

@IrmaFayLear

How idiotic moving on the assumption that wfh would continue forever.

And all this “blended working”.... I bet everybody’ll be gasping to work Fridays - not.

Some people have thoroughly lost sight of the fact that they work for a business which has to make money and/or serve the public. In some cases wfh makes no difference, it in others it only suits the person who has decided it suits them.

If your employer states that flexible working is going to be adopted going forward than it's a reasonable thing to do to, y'know, think that flexible working is going to be encouraged. It's a pretty dick move to say that and completely roll back on it.

Some businesses have lost sight of the fact that employees are not slaves and if they treat their employees with respect they usually get on a lot better.

Pre pandemic it was the expectation that an employee wfh would have suitable childcare in place. Now from many posts I can see the expectation that if you are wfh it is to be expected that you are also looking after dc/doing school runs/putting on the washing etc.

I am desperate to get back to work and out of this bloody house. I will be over the moon if we get back 5 days a week. Cant come soon enough

Same, I absolutely despise working from home. And I’m an introvert and was in an open plan office before, all the things that according to MN should have meant I hated being in an office.

There will be reshuffling eventually when some people like me who hate wfh are forced to stay there so leave their jobs, and others like OP who doesn’t want to go back to the office leave their jobs. It’s only the promise that we’re coming back eventually that’s keeping me doing this.

I’ve heard people say that they need to sort childcare if they can’t wfh too. I really don’t get it either because you are either working or looking after kids - you would be doing a half arsed attempt at both doing them at the same time. I know lots of us had to when childcare was closed but employers were generous to allow it at that point and if people think that is an ok arrangement going forward then it’s no wonder some employers don’t trust staff and want them back in the office!

This is a very real issue for me. I have two team members whose immediate response to hearing about the future plans was yay, I can carry on with my current ultra flexible arrangements which don’t include childcare and do include multiple school runs and nursery pick ups every day. What we managed through the worst times when childcare was closed isn’t necessarily something that can be sustained long term and that’s because we have a job to do, not because I’m a big meanie. Availability for meetings and collaboration is severely impacted as they’re either missing or there are small children in the house. It going to be tricky resetting expectations and finding compromises I think.

I think WFH can be a good idea.However as above PP have stated .You did apply for your job as an employee working in the office, along with the commute ,office politics and so on.So as far as your employers are concerned thats what you signed up for.Generations of women /men have faced a long commute and thought nothing of it! Obv now we have all had a taste of WFH ,many of us have enjoyed it and would like it to continue ,Alas not our decision .You moved further out so will have to find a way of commuting .OW will have to look for another role which fits WFH for you.Thats the reality of being in the workforce really !

OP perhaps overall productivity isn't improved. Maybe yours is but many aren't so they've decided they need everyone back to "make it fair" because they can't really only let the people who work from home well do it.

Yes they can, if they have such a thing as a formal competency framework measuring productivity and quality of output.

@IrmaFayLear

Pre pandemic it was the expectation that an employee wfh would have suitable childcare in place. Now from many posts I can see the expectation that if you are wfh it is to be expected that you are also looking after dc/doing school runs/putting on the washing etc.

WFH doesn't mean you have to be chained to your desk. Yup, I put washing on, do a bit of hoovering etc when I'm working from home. So what? People in the office will be going for coffee, chatting with collegues etc so it makes no odds.

And post-pandemic companies are going to need to be more flexible. Lots of childcare/afterschool activities still haven't started up fully or have shut. It's a different situation now even out of lockdown.

@PinkTonic

I’ve heard people say that they need to sort childcare if they can’t wfh too. I really don’t get it either because you are either working or looking after kids - you would be doing a half arsed attempt at both doing them at the same time. I know lots of us had to when childcare was closed but employers were generous to allow it at that point and if people think that is an ok arrangement going forward then it’s no wonder some employers don’t trust staff and want them back in the office!

This is a very real issue for me. I have two team members whose immediate response to hearing about the future plans was yay, I can carry on with my current ultra flexible arrangements which don’t include childcare and do include multiple school runs and nursery pick ups every day. What we managed through the worst times when childcare was closed isn’t necessarily something that can be sustained long term and that’s because we have a job to do, not because I’m a big meanie. Availability for meetings and collaboration is severely impacted as they’re either missing or there are small children in the house. It going to be tricky resetting expectations and finding compromises I think.

I don't understand how someone could have no childcare AND be doing school/nursery runs? Surely that means they have arranged childcare?

I don't understand how someone could have no childcare AND be doing school/nursery runs? Surely that means they have arranged childcare?

If someone works full time hours then school hours with no additional childcare means they haven’t arranged childcare.

I agree about it being tricky resetting expectations. I think some people are going to become very pissed off if Jane is never available between 3 and 4. And inevitably it will be those without dcs who will be forced into picking up the slack. I think it is important for employers to be flexible on illness/school plays/sports days etc, but the assumption that you should have the right to have your kids wandering around whilst you are meant to be working or that you can be absent for chunks every single day is going to backfire.

@Bunny2021

We’ve gone to hybrid. It’s entirely voluntary at the moment but from June it will be WFH two days a week (if you want).

It seems strange that they’ve done a 180 despite paying consultants. Could it be to do with office rent and wanting feet in the office to make it worthwhile?

My company is moving to a smaller office to reduce rent.

This is a very important factor in all of this . Many companies have leases on their offices which run to several years . No one wants to be negotiating new leases and stripping and outfitting offices every year . This goes hand in hand with restructuring of personnel which may as yet be unknown to everyone. Permanent wfh requires certain legal baseline standards to be provided . It's all very complex.

I just thank God the majority of the civil service in non-customer facing roles have been sensible about this.

Above all the environmental benefits are HUGE . Those dismissing this as 'you have to heat your home' have obviously no a clue about the reality.

My commute was 26 miles each way in a small car. (Citroen C1). Which causes 28 TONNES of carbon each year. Last year I burned 1200 litres of heating oil and 2246 KWH of electricity which cost 3.65 Tonnes of Carbon. (A third of which I would of used in the evening/weekends anyway. ) I have 8 colleagues on my team alone with similar commutes.

My employers forward thinking will save a minimum of 208 TONNES of carbon alone from one small team. Imagine the impact it's going to have across the entire civil service. !

In my opinion climate change is one of the most important issues facing us today. We have a genuine opportunity to make a substantial change by WFH where we can. For that reason alone there should be legislation to force employers to facilitate this where it is possible. Presenteeism should not be a reason to give away this brilliant chance to make a major change.

Vote with your feet OP and go to work for a more enlightened employer. They will pay for their narrow minds by losing staff and hopefully that will change their ways.

Our productivity was up 18% over the last year.
We were able to give up our lease on an expensive tax payer funded London office.

Staff well being is up 81%
Sickness down to average of 0.3 days a year from 4.2

What is not to love. ?

Re putting on washing etc, for the most productive among us, WFH is allowing better use of down time. My down time at work consists of sitting at my desk trying to look busy if there's a lull in my work flow (and feeling guilty) or, quite often, hiding in a corner trying to de-stress or having a cry At home, doing a quick chore lets me decompress and feel at the end of the day I'm in control of my home life. When I had a bad vaccine reaction I was able to keep working all day because I could take a meeting from the sofa, avoid the discomfort of the commute etc.

@Bluesheep8 I turned down a potential role because it is a 5 days a week work in an office role.

Every single other role has a minimum of 3 days in the office.

From about 2010 all my roles have been a mixture of WFH and work in the office. Sometimes the office has been in another city so I just have to go there a few days a month.