Telling people to talk is not enough

[Timetobuckup]

I agree that we need to be more open about how we are really feeling
I agree that we need to be supportive to those that are willing to share
I agree that it is a healthy thing to do to open up and start that process.

But after the talking there just isn't the support out there!

For some people and some situations just getting off your chest and having a good emotional 'vomit' makes the world of difference and it is great. However a lot of people have been told to talk, to tell someone how they feel, to be honest about their pain.

And the professionals just are not there!

I don't have the answers (other than funding, training) but I wish the narrative was changed from 'It's good to talk' to 'Why the hell is CAMH's etc got a 12-18 month wait list for seriously ill teens?'

And that is without even touching on adult services who are also in a bad way!

I might be way off, but I think there's two related, but separate issues.
It's good to talk is a good message because it does us the world of good to share life's ups and downs rather than bottling things up, where it could become a more pressing mental health issue. Having friendship and human contact and hearing others have ups and downs is probably good for our mental wellbeing, especially when some places push the idea that anything other than content happiness is a mental health issue. A lot of daily emotions seem to have been repacked as mental health and wellbeing.
For example it's always been common sense to do things you enjoy to make you happy and give balance. Now it's not just a hobby or going out for the day, or having a Netflix evening where you put cleaning off for tomorrow, it's "self-care". Clearing your head by going for a walk, or focusing on the positiveside is now "mindfulness". It's just a way of rebranding entirely normal life.

Those who have clinical mental health issues need to access support and the wait time for services is awful in places and professional intervention is limited to a high threshold in many areas. That's something that needs shouting from the rooftops.

@LolaSmiles that is really my point, for some people just getting things off their chest and talking things through with a friend or even a stranger on a helpline is enough.

But for so many people, they are opening up a trauma to people who are not qualified, but it is all they have. These people can end up re-traumatised and suffering even more because the services are not available and they end up managing with what they have.

A lot of very well meaning people are ending up in very difficult situations.

I 100% agree with you.

Thank you @janlevinson

You hit the nail on the head about dangerous situations.

One of my concerns about this mental health creep is that teenagers are finding themselves expected to play therapist to their friends when they lack the maturity or skills to establish what is being a good friend and what needs to be dealt with professionally. It also has huge implications for how they view ups and downs as in recent years I've noticed a huge rise in self-diagnosed or self-idenitifed mental health conditions, whilst also a worrying rise in students who struggle to get access to professional help.

There's been calls for schools to do more, but well-meaning teachers doing a mental health first aid kit can easily do more harm than good because it is way beyond their training and expertise.

The pressure in relationships is also problematic as people are expected to endlessly carry the burden of their partner's issues or tolerate poor behaviour because of (real or conveniently claimed) mental health issues. Women especially seem to be expected to accept men doing very little because, if a recent thread is anything anything to by, asking men to step up is apparently why men's mental health is a problem.

I think it is good to admit if you’re struggling. I think it’s fine to be open and honest.
BUT friends and family can’t cure MH issues. I approached my GP. I did get help. I am soooo much better.
It’s fine to listen and then advise someone to approach a professional. It’s fine to say that this situation is too complicated or serious to be cured by offloading in a chat.

@LolaSmiles I say this as someone who works in pastoral support in a secondary school. It is quite frankly terrifying what we are expected to cope with.

And no matter how loud we shout to the services we are blocked at every avenue.

And we are honestly a really good team with the backing of the head to concentrate on wellbeing and mental health with good connections to services.
If we feel we are being let down then I dread to think what is going on elsewhere! And obviously when I say we I mean the young people .

@Wolfiefan I am so pleased you have had a positive experience with the GP. and you are feeling more positive.

I don't hear it enough so thank you.

@Timetobuckup it wasn’t a quick fix. But I’ve gone from highly anxious (often panic stricken for bugger all real reason) and just about able to cope with a shower and putting clothes on each day.
To walking the dogs and trying new recipes and reading my book and planning holidays (one day!) and laughing with the kids and ....
Finding the right medication really helped. I’ve done CBT and keep doing my HW!!

That is so good, that is exactly what worries me. It isn't a quick fix when someone is in such a dark place.

Well done you for seeking it out. And especially well done on the homework ! Putting in that work is the hard part, especially at a time when you feel so anxious and vulnerable.

It really concerns me that teachers are expected to be trained up to deal with and spot mental health difficulties in children and young people.

I struggle a lot with my own mental health. There is no way I feel comfortable trying to support children beyond what I usually do in class.

we have to do mental health check ins with our teams....i'm a retail manager and really not up for it i'm afraid.

whats the answer?

@Pinkflipflop85 I think this is so important to talk about. Teachers and support staff (in general) want to help and are finding themselves having to do things that they absolutely aren't trained for with no professional backing, and however well meaning they are it can be dangerous for both the student and the staff member.

@MontysRoseGarden I definitely don't have all the answers but funding for mental health services would be a great start.

What exactly is a mental health check in ? And what are you expected to do ? Sounds a bit tick boxy ? But also sounds rough for you to have to do.

I am quite sceptical about it all.

You get people with no formal training starting charities or companies to offer mental health services aka highly dubious workshops to schools, youth groups and colleges.

These DIY mental health 'advocates' position themselves as experts in the complex and highly sensitive field of mental health when they are often not experienced or educated in this field at all and they end up offering potentially damaging or confusing intervention to vulnerable children.

I fear it's a huge safeguarding issue.

Under the cloak of 'respectable' and 'benevolent' mental health offerings these individuals get possibly unscrutinised access to our young people.

None of these offerings are evidence based or follow any established health intervention processes. It's quite disturbing actually.

I fear that the vacuous 'just share all your worries', 'speak out' slogans that are thrown around ATM break down natural boundaries.

One such self declared mental health charity that promotes just what you say OP, has no mission statement on their website. They have a bear mascot meaning that volunteers for this charity go round in a full bear costume hugging children to make them feel loved and happy .

I also fear that the term mental health doesn't actually include people with severe mental health issues. It's become a buzz concept just like mindfulness a few years ago. It's unfortunately rather shallow and possibly dubious.

TBH I also don't like the fact that schools are getting involved in mental health, it's intrusive IMO. I don't want some person with little training to ask my dc about their inner most feelings, it's all kinds of wrong.

@MhhmNo In my experience it is not that school are asking children to tell all. It is children are not managing and they spill how they are feeling and when signposted to the relevant agencies they are bounced back to parents and school.
School are then seen as the only place for them to have a trusted adult and have to pick up the pieces in the best way they know how.

Schools absolutely don't want to be the 4th emergency service but they have no choice at the moment.

Have to add the retail trust have been great, I’ve referred 2 people to their free phone counselling

It’s not a tick box type thing it’s really more of a one to one, how you feeling type thing. Customers have been vile all through covid....abuse to staff has been off the scale

Staff are struggling but I’m not a trained professional

I am pleased to hear that they do at least have free counselling .

I am just really worried about the simple narrative that is being spread about just talking .
Sometimes that really helps and that is great but the fact that it can actually be harmful is being ignored.
It is so difficult when someone is finally brave enough to say they are really suffering and are really not coping and the services are so stretched they can't accommodate them.
And yes of course they will be supported by others in the meantime but it is not good enough.

I’m support/ pastoral in a school. There is a huge mental health crisis with young people today. In the last month I have advised 10+ parents to take their child to the doctor due to mental health, self harming and eating disorders. Every single one of them has been referred back to the school. We don’t have the training or funding to be able to give the support to the students that they need. I can listen to their problems all day and be the listening ear they need but I am not qualified or know enough to give advice on eating disorders.

We are also at a 12-18 month waiting list for CAHMS. By the time they may get an appointment they might have left school. Something needs to be done before it gets worse.

There was a post about this under work.

The messaging is unclear, wellbeing is confused with actual mental health problems.

Its good to talk about wellbeing for everyone, but mental health problems need to be seen by a professional.

At work more employees are talking to managers about mental health problems which can take its toll on managers, who are not counsellors, and not equipped, and can also be triggering of their own issues. I have been on both sides.

Very much share the concerns about safeguarding on here. 'just talk to someone' may well be very helpful if you're talking about fairly mild / straightforward/ everyday concerns and anxieties. However, with anything more intense or challenging, the problem is 'just talk to someone' is that in my experience, almost no one knows how to listen. Mental health professionals very much included, sadly. People are either embarrassed, don't know what to say, or go down the 'think positive' route - 'think of all the good things in your life', 'you have so much to be grateful for', 'maybe you could take up running' 🙄

It's a cheap, lazy, apparently easy fix for the government to get behind. What we actually need is MONEY - proper investment in training mental health professionals, subsidised psychotherapy (not just 6 sessions of CBT) for those who need it, investment in the early years and developing parenting skills. At the moment, it's a whole lot of cheap talk and nothing else

No recent experience with teenagers so will not comment.

As regards adults, I do have the suspicion that employers are mentioning it more as a way of covering themselves against future claims in courts/employment tribunals. Instead of tackling more fundamentally the workplace issues that can or do harm mental health (workplace conditions where in a building, poor IT support when wfh, poor and/or untrained managers, bureaucracy, for example).

Our company have been fantastic. Really looked after us.....large countrywide chain,400 stores

We are encouraged to do what we can to help everyone....and we do.

It’s the customers causing the problems. Not sure what we can do....I always tell junior staff to call me (or any manager) at the hint of trouble, and they do, and then us managers take the abuse.

It’s the low level stuff they get....comments,mask refusal, or under chin ... pushing past, whinging about stock levels,moaning about queuing. It is SO wearing.

We employ a lot of teenagers, and some from age 16

Please be kind to retail staff everyone. Stick up for them if you witness customers having a go! We really appreciate it

When my dd was in crisis camhs and now adult services were there. I think there is an issue with people seeking referrals for normal teenage emotions and an element of unrealistic expectations (we aren't happy all the time) combined with an increase in complicated family situations causing emotional trauma and social media seems to be not helping let's say. Why are more teens needing help? That's really what we need to address. Resilience or rather lack of has been talked about as an issue, along with family I mentioned above but DD's psychiatrist said he was at a loss as to why so many were seeking help, in particular for issues that should be solvable within a family and/or school.

I have never waited more than 2 weeks I should add, and last summer under full covid regs they came out within 6 hours, I was most impressed. I'm guessing the 18 month waits are for different issues to hers. Serious mental health issues are prioritised