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Original poster

Would you approach school about this?

32 replies

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 16:48

DD aged 6; year 2 has open access to the toilets at school as she has a joint condition that can mask the feeling of her needing to go to the toilet. She often doesn’t tell anyone until the very last moment – even when she’s with me, if we go to the supermarket or on a day out I always make sure I know where the toilets are as she will literally tell me as she’s about to burst that she needs to go and we have to run to them (having to look for them wastes time and means more chance of accidents) – we’re working on this with physio but it’s hard and common with her condition for them to not feel the need to go. We’re strengthening the muscles in that area so hopefully when she does realise she needs to go she has enough time to get there without accidents.

Recently DDs been coming out of school in her spare uniform after toileting accidents more often than normal (usually have 1-2 accidents a week, it’s not 4-5 a week). Usually there would be a note in her home-school diary but I’m not getting this which suggests it’s happening outside of class.

DD has said there is one particular lunchtime lady (as she calls them) that insists she cannot go inside to go to the toilet after they’ve been sent out to play, DD is not confident enough to say she has to go and I’m not sure if the lunchtime supervisors are aware of the issues. DD is not distressed and says this lady always helps her get changed when she has an accident so I want to approach from that point of view rather than all guns blazing.

So would you email school about this or leave it as DD is not upset? I'm not sure lunchtime access to toilets classes as a reasonable adjustment.

For added context we will eventually build up to her holding her bladder/bowel for a few minutes but we have to strengthen the other muscles first in order to do this.

OP posts:

rainbowfairydust · 13/05/2021 16:51

Yes definitely email so they can let the lunch staff know!

GlitterBicuits · 13/05/2021 16:52

Definitely contact the school.
And do so repeatedly if it's not sorted.

Fitforforty · 13/05/2021 16:52

Yes contact school.

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6 year olds Families General education Primary education

Smartiepants79 · 13/05/2021 16:54

Is she saying she can’t go in even if she asks an adult? Which would be unreasonable and need addressing.
Or that she’s not allowed to simply walk in from the playground without informing an adult? Which is a safety issue and reasonable in my view.
If she is supposed to be outside then her adults need to know if she is not in case of fire alarm etc
She should be allowed in when she asks to go though.

BiggerBoat1 · 13/05/2021 16:55

Of course you should contact the school. Lunchtime staff should be fully briefed - not the lunchtime lady's fault if she hasn't been told. All staff in the school should know to let you DD go as soon as she asks.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 16:55

@Smartiepants79

Is she saying she can’t go in even if she asks an adult? Which would be unreasonable and need addressing. Or that she’s not allowed to simply walk in from the playground without informing an adult? Which is a safety issue and reasonable in my view. If she is supposed to be outside then her adults need to know if she is not in case of fire alarm etc She should be allowed in when she asks to go though.

She says this lady stands by the door to stop people going inside and she says she needs to go to the toilet and the lady says she can't go and should go before going onto the playground after lunch.

OP posts:

seven201 · 13/05/2021 16:56

I teach in a secondary. Student with toilet needs are issued a toilet pass to just show a member of staff and should then always be allowed to go to the toilet straight away. Ask for one perhaps. I'd be furious personally if the same woman was always not allowing my dd to the toilet when she has a condition! Whilst I don't think you should go in all guns blazing I don't think there's any need to be too soft either. It's not ok and should have been dealt with after one or two lunch time incidents.

Smartiepants79 · 13/05/2021 16:57

Well then the lunchtime staff need to be made aware of her needs.
Let school know so that they can pass it on.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 17:02

@seven201

I'm wondering if she's aware of the condition which is meaning she's thinking she's a normal year 2 rather than one with special arrangements thats why I don't want to go in too tough.

OP posts:

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 13/05/2021 17:12

Email the school and make them aware.
They can make sure DD goes right before she goes to lunch or before going out on the playground. They can arrange that DD is allowed to go in when she needs to go and make the lunch lady aware of this. There are several things they can try. Is not fair on your daughter to have accidents nearly daily. Also not on the lunch lady tbh having to deal with it /the clean up when some small adjustments can easily be made.

It's not a guns blazing situation at the moment and no one is to blame really , but it can't be fixed unless you do email/ring in.

Cactuslockdown · 13/05/2021 17:16

Yes of course just tell the school.
“Please ensure that lunch lady lucy is aware that smallBluelovinggirl must be allowed to access the toilets at all times, including lunchtime, for the avoidance of accidents”

sadpapercourtesan · 13/05/2021 17:19

It's pretty appalling that ANY child is told they can't use a toilet when they need to, never mind one with a known medical need. I despair of the way we treat children sometimes.

The school has dropped the ball here OP. You have notified them of her medical need, it was then their responsibility and their duty of care to ensure that all relevant staff were aware and her needs were met while in school. I wouldn't be tiptoeing around this, personally - I am never rude or abusive to school staff, but I see no reason not to be fairly assertive. You're your daughter's advocate.

I'm at the end of a long, battle-strewn journey through school with a child with additional needs who has been repeatedly failed and endangered by school staff who ranged from incompetent to actively malevolent though, so you'll find my advice is at a particular end of the spectrum - take it or leave it

DinosApple · 13/05/2021 17:27

Yes email them. Hope it gets resolved soon. I'd assume the dinner lady just isn't aware, no adult wants a child to have an accident!

We have 'outdoor' toilets that the children can use in our bubble (accessible from our bit of playground), but other bubbles have to go back to the classroom to use the facilities. In that instance an adult would accompany them, but obviously the adult needs to make sure there was still other supervisors available to cover the children still outside.

All the lunchtime staff are also TAs where I work, and we all prefer the children to go at lunchtime than have 30 children needing the toilet when they get in and it's learning time!

Mumdiva99 · 13/05/2021 17:30

Of course tell the school. It sounds like a break down in communication which needs fixing.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 17:32

@DinosApple

Yes email them. Hope it gets resolved soon. I'd assume the dinner lady just isn't aware, no adult wants a child to have an accident!

All the lunchtime staff are also TAs where I work, and we all prefer the children to go at lunchtime than have 30 children needing the toilet when they get in and it's learning time!

For the other children in the classroom the rule is you ask and the teacher will say if you can go or not, with DD the rule is she just tells any adult in the room she's going, the only time it's ever been a problem has been when she's had a supply teacher who didn't know her or the class.

OP posts:

sadpapercourtesan · 13/05/2021 17:34

Supply teachers shouldn't be an issue either. When I've taught supply the first thing I ask is whether there are any additional needs I should know about - if they haven't already volunteered the information, which they absolutely should.

Not good enough.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 17:36

@sadpapercourtesan

Not good enough.

It wasn't a problem with the teacher, the teacher did let other children use the toilet the problem was DD not speaking to her to tell her she needed to go (she has other issues as well as the joint one but they aren't really relevant to the thread).

OP posts:

greenlynx · 13/05/2021 17:38

You should definitely raise this. I wouldn’t mention that your DD is not upset, it’s irrelevant. Your child is entitled to reasonable adjustment and school should make sure that all staff are aware about this. There is no need for them to tell this dinner lady exact diagnosis or details about physio or whatever, just that your daughter can go to toilet any time she wants. Of course your DD doesn’t insist, what do they expect from her: long speech with pictures and graphs to prove that she’s really desperate? She is only year 2.

Tbh I wouldn’t like it for any child. Many children in years 1,2,3 can’t plan ahead and can be catch short while playing.

KarenMarlow3 · 13/05/2021 17:38

Definitely inform the school. The lunchtime staff probably don't know about your daughter's condition. She ought to be issued with a pass to allow her to go to the toilet when she needs to.

SleepingStandingUp · 13/05/2021 17:44

Def raise it, the dinner lady sounds like she's trying to do the right thing so sounds like she just needs to be informed.

Can you train her to "try" before she goes out to play? DS yr1 has only been out of nappies since Jan and he's sent at specific times for a "try" to preempt the mid lunch dash (also doesn't tell until he's desperate)

user1494055864 · 13/05/2021 17:47

Lunchtime supervisors are not automatically made aware of children's needs, although imo they obviously should be.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 17:47

@SleepingStandingUp

Def raise it, the dinner lady sounds like she's trying to do the right thing so sounds like she just needs to be informed.

Thats not recommended by her physio as it relaxes her muscles, she's supposed to be strengthen them so she has enough time before being so desperate she has accidents.

OP posts:

SleepingStandingUp · 13/05/2021 17:51

Ah fair enough

2bazookas · 13/05/2021 18:00

Phone school, speak to head teacher, then when they have agreed to DD's toilet access, send a written letter by post setting out the conversation "to confirm our agreement". Keep a copy.

Since DD doesn't feel when her bladder is full, perhaps the way forward is to train her to go to the loo at fixed times so she never reaches bursting point.

Original poster

BlueLovingGirl · 13/05/2021 18:04

@2bazookas

Phone school, speak to head teacher, then when they have agreed to DD's toilet access, send a written letter by post setting out the conversation "to confirm our agreement". Keep a copy.

Since DD doesn't feel when her bladder is full, perhaps the way forward is to train her to go to the loo at fixed times so she never reaches bursting point.

Physio is hoping we can train her to recognise the difference between pain and the need to use the toilet, she is getting better but there is still some confusion hence the occasional accident.

OP posts:

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