Detaching from anxious young adult daughter

[Lollobrigida]

Am a regular who has NC. Not sure where to put this, but hoping this is the right place. I am at the end of my tether with DD, 20, who has always been very anxious and has a history of depression. So as not to drip feed, she has a therapist and is on medication. It works to some extent, but not perfectly.

DD is the sort who always sees the worst in every situation. Everything is a tragedy, she is the unluckiest person in the world, everybody is out to get her..... that kind of thing. For years, I have been her main emotional support. To be fair, she has had a hard time in lockdown. Her boyfriend dumped her. She is in uni, but is having a hard time and thinks her course won't be very useful to her ( I advised her against the course but she was adamant)Our beloved family dog died. So overall, it has been a hard year.

That said, I think she needs to move on and help herself emerge from this pit of misery. I am exhausted as well. My relationship with DH is suffering as I am constantly thinking abt DD. I have a DS as well who is doing A levels and needs support. I can never be happy because I am always worried about whether DD is happy, and I am fairly certain now that she is not one of life's happy people. How can I detach myself? I want to be there for her but I do not want to be dragged down into the mire.

That sounds very hard and emotionally draining. Could you agree to have a set FaceTime call, once a week? Does she constantly contact you? If so send shorter replies and say 'let's save this for our FaceTime'. She clearly finds it hard to depend on herself. Does she have friends at uni?

I would say she calls me a lot when she needs something! She used to be pretty good at making friends in school, but has not done so at uni because of the endless disruptions and lack of in person teaching. I am not usympathetic to the effect of lockdown. I just think what cannot be cured must be endured, and there is a point at which she just needs to say : enough of this, I need to make the best of things now.

I feel like I have no leeway to ever be sad or exhausted myself because she is always sad.

Without wishing to be unsympathetic to your dd, how much do you think is misery and how much is moaning? My ds2 is a right little Eyore and will complain out of all proportion to any upset he is actually feeling - it's just a bad habit. Obviously with your dd there is more going on but could offloading on you partly be habit? Or a coping strategy?

Students have had itreally hard this year.Just keep reminding yourself and her of how much better it will be when these absurd restrictions list and she can meet people and make new friends,

How often is she seeing the therapist? They should be discussing coping strategies and regular practices.

Your post says you're being affected by the amount you are thinking /worrying about her, rather than her getting in touch more than is manageable.

Do you have strategies for managing your worries about her?

Is she big on social media? She may be comparing the worst aspects of her life with the ‘best’ aspects of others, which if you’re not aware of it can be quite crushing

This sounds really hard op

I am not in a position to offer advice because my teen dd's behaviour is getting me fown ATM and as everyone has said, I think everyone is underestimating the effect that lockdown has had on them and young adults.

However I still cling to the maxim that the best parenting book has one page in it on which is written "example, example, example". (Thank you Bear Grylls.)

There's another thread on here atm about how the reality of coming out of lockdown is not matching up to expectations. So even fully fledged adults are finding it very hard. I think maybe teens are looking to us to lead the way practically and emotionally out of lockdown.

Its very easy as a very concerned mother to follow a teen down a rabbit hole of despair. I don't know how but I have the feeling we need to stop ourselves from going down that route, and while keeping lines of communication open and being supportive as we can, go and do what makes us happy and maybe they will follow suit?

[And yes I need to take my own advice .]

I would see a therapist yourself, honestly. They can help you set ground rules and stick to them - like not answering every text. Like having a script for certain repeated complaints. Like asking her what she thinks she should do about x y z. Otherwise you can't escape this dynamic.

Anxiety runs in families; learnt behaviour and modelled thinking patterns and genetic disposition. PPs suggesting you work on your own strategies are talking sense as this will also model for your daughter that you are engaging with the process.
Off loading to your mum is pretty usual as someone also said above. And it's natural that it affects you, "You're only as happy as your least happy child". Easier said than done, I know, but you need to take responsibility for the impact it has on you. Is there anyone else who can keep an eye on her? And to whom she might not moan so much? Her dad, or a grandparent maybe?
And yes it has been a dreadful year for university students and young adults and their life prospects. They have been dumped on really alongside all the other issues of boyfriends and whatever.

OP

I was the daughter in a bit dissimilar dynamic.

Hope this is helpful.

this sounds co-dependant / enmeshed. I agree with other posters your first place to start is therapy for yourself. This is great example / modelling for your daughter and will help you with clarifying what is your stuff / what is hers, boundaries.
I did group therapy thing a while ago and was troubled how everyone there was there to deal with problems with their mothers. I asked the therapist how I could be a better mother, was it inevitable I was the person my kids went to therapy about? She said the best advice she had was to work in myself and my own issues.

Have you considered part of your daughters anxiety / depression may stem from your own pessimistic view of her? You are concluding ‘she is not one of life’s happy people’ - that is very damming view of a young person, never mind one you are supposed to love and support.

Maybe she is calling you constantly because she needs something different from you (and maybe not what she’s saying / asking in the moment).

What would happen / what would it take for you to say to her (and before that, believe and feel about her)... ‘you are wonderful. Yes this has been a though time, but you will get through this. You are worthy of love, I believe in you’? Can you discuss this with a therapist? As a young adult it’s not your role to fix details in her life anymore. But it IS your role to not just love her, but believe in her. And it’s doesn’t sound like you do. And I bet she feels that keenly.

Like you, my mum retreated from me as a failure and fuck up, and resented that I wasn’t / couldn’t meet her needs.

All I needed was someone to say ‘I love you, I believe in you, you’re worth it, you’ll be ok’ and she never did.

Can you ‘do’ less about the little details but show your love and belief in her more on the big picture?

Eventually I turned myself around through my own therapy. I came to understand my relationship with my mum was codependent and unhealthy for me. I have successfully redrawn it.

Sadly, my mum is kind of jealous of my happiness. Yes she found fuck up me a burden. But she also found validation in my unhappiness and self doubt which mirrored her own.

It’s worth considering how much your daughter’s behaviour is a reflection of your own beliefs, about her, or you.

Should say ‘I was the daughter in a simile dynamic’

I wonder if Family Therapy with a really experienced Systemic Psychotherapist may be helpful: they could help you look at your relationship dynamics and boundaries and help you to recognise and unpick any communication issues.

I'm in a similar situation to yours OP, and I disagree with the statement that you're only as happy as your unhappiest child.

I agree with others that therapy for yourself will help you set boundaries and work out how to be supportive without being co-dependent.

All I needed was someone to say ‘I love you, I believe in you, you’re worth it, you’ll be ok’ and she never did.

This is good to read. I do this with DD. I feel like it's one of the things I can do for her.

I just think what cannot be cured must be endured, and there is a point at which she just needs to say : enough of this, I need to make the best of things now.

Except you’re wanting a “cure” for your daughters anxiety or help to pull back, so not really “enduring” with her. Clinical anxiety is an absolute nightmare for people who experience it, it can really stop them in their tracks - it’s like telling a person with depression to cheer up a bit.

If you don’t want to be pulled in her “mire” it’s worth looking at therapy for yourself, to help identify the kind of support you can offer her and to help you reset your own thinking so that her anxiety doesn’t become all consuming for you.

By your own admission this has been a very hard year for her and she’s away from home and her main support systems. Her uni experience hasn’t been what she hoped it would be and I’m guessing it feels like the world is very unfair for her. I know many, many mentally healthy adults who have been knocked for 6 by this round of lockdown, so it’s not surprising with her vulnerability she’s finding it hard. It’s not her fault she can’t just see the sunny side, and it’s very hard when people tell you to effectively get on with it when you’re finding it so hard.

Work on yourself and your own resilience by all means which might give you headspace to offer her the support she needs just now.

Just another perspective — fundamentally, I agree with others that therapy would be the best move for you — but are you certain you’re not contributing to the dynamic by only giving her attention when she’s depressed and anxious?

I’m not suggesting this is the case with you, but just to say that I’m the daughter of an anxious chronic worrier mother, who would have absolutely said throughout my teens that she wanted nothing more than my happiness, BUT only ever paid me any attention if I was uNhappy or worried about something. To this day, I can hear her switch off if I call in a good mood or something goes right for me — it comes down to her not feeling needed by confident, happy people. It had the opposite effect on me to your daughter — I got very tired of having any minor worry I mentioned inflated by my mother to a huge thing that kept her awake at night— to the point where I learned never to tell her anything negative.

I dealt with a cancer diagnosis, a horribly worrying test result when pregnant and PND without ever mentioning them to her.

Wow, I did not expect so many replies in Chat. It is a busy work day for me today, but I am going to reply in detail shortly. Thank you all so much for the responses.

I took my time in replying because I really wanted to think about all the responses.

To the poster who asked if she is an Eeyore, yes, she always has been since the age of 15 or so. I thought she might grow out of it after her teens, but she is still this way at 20. So it is not entirely due to the pandemic. That's why I am was exhausted even before the pandemic.

Offloading to me is definitely a coping strategy for her, but also her boyfriend broke up with her bcos in his words "she was too clingy and dependent". I know it sounds awful and damning to say this, but she s very exhausting.

She has therapy once a week. I think I will get some therapy for myself too. I have been too busy in this pandemic to think of this till now, but I would like to be there for her and yet not fall into this script. Not to dripfeed, but I am also going through peri-menopause, so that may have some impact. I hear those of you who say I should work on myself too and I will try to do so now.

@CatsRock Yesterday when she was having a meltdown over an essay that was due, I told her it was very good ( it actually was) and that I believed in her. It did help a bit. Will try this more. I am more of a solver than a listener, but I will try to listen more bcos maybe this is what every young person needs now rather than solutions?

To the poster who asked if anyone else can help, DH is going thru a nightmare time with his job, so while he helps a lot with the practical side of things, he is not great at emotional. But she is v close to my mom who does help a lot and is very patient with her anxieties.

One thing that bothers me is she is bad at taking responsibility for her actions and is prone to catastrophic thinking. I think I need to talk to her therapist about this? For instance, she chose a uni near to her BF ( we advised against this) and would not listen to any advice from us about her uni course choice. We decided she had to find her own way and learn from her own mistakes. It is now too late to transfer given the pandemic ( almost at the end of year 2) so she has to stick it out and try to choose a better Masters. But she is now lamenting her uni choice and her course choice, which makes me feel like I have to help her with both hands tied. I tell her she is very young and has all the time in the world to change her choice of career. Also we can afford to support her and she can live at home. But she seems to think she is doomed for life and will never find a job. This may be how young people feel in a pandemic.

@MindtheBelleek I considered what you are saying but I honestly do not think I switch off when she is a good mood. I would love to see her in a good mood.:(

I have a similar daughter, similar age. I saw a counsellor for a while myself a few years ago when DD was very unwell with depression and anxiety and self harming. She said something to me which really stuck: when someone is at the bottom of a deep pit, they need someone at the top to reach up to and help them out, not someone sharing it with them. It's still hard at times, but practice makes perfect and this thought helps me detach a little from my DD. That sound harsh, but is actually more helpful for both of us.

I'm sure you are trying to be supportive. But honestly it sounds like you have created a narrative for her and see all of her behaviour in this lense. So does she never have fun? Because you make it sound like she doesn't.

You also sound quite judgemental. Re her uni course and location. Teenagers and young adults do sometimes make stupid decisions. But do you think she wouldn't be freaking out about the usefulness of her course I'd she'd done something else?

Basically it sounds like you think her issues are choices rather than a mental health problem. They are very different things.

I think I need to talk to her therapist about this?
I’d be very surprised if her therapist would be ok with you talking to her about your daughter. She’s an adult and her therapy is her space, by doing so you’d be continuing the narrative that she’s a child who needs her parent to intervene. You can’t step back while stepping into her space.

In terms of peri menopause, I’d consider how much that’s affecting your response to her - I know my tolerance levels went through the floor and HRT has made a massive difference.

She wouldn’t be the first person that made a poor choice of university, she might drop out and you might need to let her otherwise she’ll always continue to be reliant on you. I don’t think it’s unusual for young adults to worry about careers and future jobs, especially if they think they’ve made the wrong choice of study. You’re treating her issues as behavioural when her mental health seems shaky, they are very different things and very hard to deal with.

I think you need to think about how you see her, as a child who needs guidance and intervention or a young adult who needs to live with the choices she makes, at the moment there’s the potential for her to get very mixed messages which won’t help her anxiety levels.

'I can never be happy because I am always worried about whether DD is happy,' this sentence made me really uncomfortable to read. She isn't here to make you happy, she's here to live her life. Let her live, don't contact her therapist, give your beloved daughter space and take your judgement to a therapist.

A lot of what PP are saying about healthy detachment, modelling looking after yourself, is in therapist Brad Reedy's books and podcast, which I def recommend. Podcast is called Finding You.

Basically advocates working on our own mental health, being clear about our boundaries, and doing lots of listening but being able to say, I don't have capacity for that right now when appropriate. No advising, suggesting, nagging, no explaining, justifying, defending. Simpler, clearer communications with others from a place of knowing it's okay to feel what you feel and for them to feel what they feel and you don't get into each other's stuff.

The line "you're only as happy as your least happy child" is viewed as a toxic myth because we are each responsible for our own serenity.

I was in a similar situation 4 years ago, my daughter suffered from anxiety and depression she would call me 3/4 times a day from 10 min to hour calls, my blood would run cold every time the phone would ring.
The thing I realised was, I was doing her no favours by always being available as a punch bag, and only having me to talk too wasn’t helping her in the long run.
The only thing I could do was to tell her how much I loved her and that she needed to start to take hold of the reins is of her own life, I told her I would always be here, and I took take a huge step backwards, it was so hard at first not picking up the calls but in time my daughter started making her own choices.
Believe me I know how you feel, you have to be strong or you will be no good to her if you make yourself ill, try explaining this to her, I don’t expect it will go down well at first and be prepared for her to throw all she can at you.
But it was the right thing to do, she grew up really quickly and took responsibility for her own life.
Holding onto the apron strings can do more harm than good.
Good luck x

I’ve got anxiety and depression and my mum is a problem-solver, and we used to really clash. I would tell her how anxious I was and she would make suggestions as to what I could do to solve the problem - making me feel like she was saying “if only you tried harder/did what I said you wouldn’t be mentally unwell”. And we’d go round in circles with her making suggestions and me countering them, all the while just wanting her to acknowledge that I was hurting. It’s taken a long time but now she knows to say that she’s sorry I’m feeling rubbish, and she hopes I feel better soon, and big hugs. She’s not one for saying “I love you no matter what” but I can hear that behind what she actually says now, and it’s much more helpful than all the previous “helpful” suggestions - and it takes a lot less energy from her too!

You could try speaking to her directly about the pattern you’re in “You phone up and tell me what you’re worried about, and then I try to find solutions, and I worry, and we both get exhausted, and I don’t think you feel any better. I want to support you but it doesn’t feel like what I tend to say helps you. You don’t have to tell me right now, maybe you want to have a talk with your therapist about it, but is there a better way we can have these conversations?”

I think my mum has also realised that when you have clinical anxiety or depression, you can’t always just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and make the best of it - same as if you’ve hurt your leg really badly, you can’t just grin and bear it and carry on with your hike. I don’t know the severity of your daughter’s condition, but she might not be able to pull herself together and get on with things, and if she feels pressure from you to do that it might make it even harder.

Good luck! I know how exhausting it can be to support people who are anxious and depressed, but there are healthier ways of doing it that are more helpful and less draining and I hope the two of you can work it out and get to a better place.