Child born at cusp of school cut off

[spookybitches]

My DS was born at the very end of August and I'm currently having conversations with the school about which year he will be joining. The school is adamant that unless he has any learning difficulties, he will be going into the year where he will be the youngest. He's literally days off the cut off.

We are currently living in the Middle East and will be back in England at some point within the next 5 years. Can I ask how strict schools are in England about kids joining the correct school year when they're born this close to the cut off date? I'm really uncomfortable with him being the youngest child in his class and if I know that there would be some consideration to allow him join a year later when we move back, I'll know to keep pushing this with the school. Thank you for any insight you can give!

@arethereanyleftatall

I find this whole thing so NIMBY. Somebody has to be the youngest. If you push for it not to be your child, then it's another child. How can it be not fair for yours, but fine for the 'new' youngest child?

Yep. My birthday is August 31st. It was never an issue for me at school. Someone has to be the youngest and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

I’m a governor and each year we have a couple of families ask if they can defer their summer born child’s place for a year. We have no problems with this and allow it, but the caveat is it’s for our school only (we are our own admission’s authority) and that they have to apply again next year and be offered a place, so I don’t know how it works with moving areas.

@WhatsALieIn

My birthday is the 31st August so the final day of cut off. I don’t have any memory of being behind or too young. There were kids with birth months all throughout the year. I wouldn’t say there is a huge difference between a 4 and a 5 year old

Are you a teacher or any other kind of child specialist? Because that's one of the stupidest comments I've ever read in here. How can you possibly say that there's little difference between a 4 and 5 year old?! At that age an extra year is 25% older! Please read the reams of research done on the subject that shows that summer-born DC (particularly boys) are behind their year group for their entire school career, up to age 18 (after which tracking stops).

You know your child and if you feel they are not ready, then you can delay their start. I started my child part time only until the Christmas. The Head was fine about it but the reception teacher was a bit sniffy. However, at the end of reception, she did concede that he wasn't ready for school. He didn't catch up until half way through secondary school. You know your child best. Some are absolutely fine, others struggle and have an awful experience at school.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread (and also a lot of people telling you anecdotes about their own children which is not at all what you asked about...).

Please join the Facebook group 'flexible school admissions for summer born children' as a few people recommended upthread. It's the best place for you to learn the process here in England. It's a bit of a postcode lottery, in some areas it is very easy to start reception after a child's 5th birthday - some LAs who control primary school admissions have a guaranteed acceptance policy of any such requests and others who don't often agree all requests anyway, but in some areas it can be much more difficult to get it agreed. I would keep pushing if I were you as it's not at all guaranteed that they would make your DC move cohort upon return to England. I think it's the case that to move them back to their 'original' cohort would need the school/admissions authority to explain why missing a year of schooling would be in your child's best interests (that's the current test for missing reception and/or yr 6 so I'd imagine it would apply here too) - and in reality that will be pretty much impossible to do.

Well, somebody has to be the youngest in the class!!!

[quote HavelockVetinari]@OverTheRubicon just because some parents are unable or unwilling to delay their DC doesn't mean no-one should be allowed to do so - that's like saying that swimming lessons or theatre groups shouldn't be allowed because not all DC can take part.

Some DC are ready for school at just turned 4. Others would benefit from an extra year of nursery. That's why parents should have that choice. It's shite to say that because not all kids can do that then none should have that opportunity. Would you also ban tutors, foreign holidays, sports clubs and music lessons?[/quote]
Music lessons, while helpful, are not equivalent to being held back a year. I did specifically say that I think it should be allowed - just that the bar should be very high.

If it's done loosely it is a fairly regressive approach that mostly rewards the privileged and shafts those who are behind. I fully understand why people fight for their own DCs, but that's also why there needs to be a firm structure behind this. The fact that you equate the policy to other things that are generally provided by well off people to their children to bring them fun or ensure they maintain their privilege is pretty telling.

My birthday is in August and it was never a problem. There is nothing special about your child that means he should be somehow exempt from the basic structure of school.

My daughter was born on 1 September and so was the eldest in her year. She was due late in October so she was in the year she should have been anyway.

To be honest your child will be fine, as they get older it all evens out and so I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you.

My son is end of august .. now in year 5 and is fine!!

Reception is like play school .. no need to delay!

I have two kids, the first born August 20, the second born on September 1. I was so worried about my eldest starting school so soon after her fourth birthday, but she was actually absolutely fine. I would have held her back but our LEA said she would have to go straight into year 1 the next year, which just seemed counterproductive. It was more of a pain for the one born on September 1. She was at nursery for what felt like a hundred years and was really bored waiting to go into reception. The only issue my eldest had when she started school at only just four was that she was a bit of a pipsqueak and no branded school uniform was small enough for her!

TLDR; someone has to be the youngest. Unless your child has SEN or some other reason that may preclude them starting school with the rest of their year, it will almost certainly all be fine.

@Imissthegym

I don’t understand the fuss about this.

Yes there is a difference between a just turned 3 year old and an almost 4 year old but that difference becomes less and less over time until year 2/3 when you wouldn’t know who was summer born and who was September born. I’ve got 2 summer born children who are doing just fine.

I say that as a 31st Aug baby born at 32 weeks. The worst thing about about an August birthday is your friends having to go the pub without you in the year you all turn 18.

'The fuss' is the number of studies that demonstrate that the older kids in a given year are advantaged.

I am always 🤔 at how many parents on here assert it made no difference to their DC, therefore extrapolate that it therefore isn't an issue. Like they don't understand the basic statistics that demonstrate that if you start school 25% older than the youngest child there, you're likely to be bigger, taller, more intellectually advanced. Stats tend to reveal those facts....

My DS1 is 3rd term born. His school, actually quite helpfully, measured achievement in NC numbers, 1A,B,C; 2A,B,C etc.

At the end of KS1, Y2, back when the DC did SATS, my son measured bang on average, 2B. My close friend's son, Sept 2nd born got a low 3. Oh, how he was congratulated! Clever boy!

At Xmas, Y3, my son was scoring high 3s. So, in terms of age, doing better than my friend's son had. But no one was hoisting the bunting for him.

There's a reason why Oxbridge is heavily skewed towards winter-borns....

Being born early in your school year statistically advantages you.

@HavelockVetinari

I agree with you that there is definitely quite a big difference between a just turned 4 year old and a just turned 5 year old in a lot if ways. However, I think we have to also remember that the class is unlikely to consist of 19 kids born in September, and one in August. There will most likely be lots of kids born only a few weeks before OP’s child, and that levels out the playing field. All the kids will receive the same education after all.

@quizqueen

Well, somebody has to be the youngest in the class!!!

Yes, and you hopefully want it to be all the Aug 24-31st females on here to whom it sounds like it was a positive bonus!....

Not your shy, immature little boy.

@Twospaniels

My daughter was born on 1 September and so was the eldest in her year. She was due late in October so she was in the year she should have been anyway.

To be honest your child will be fine, as they get older it all evens out and so I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you.

In terms of higher end academic achievement, it doesn't 'even out'.

Oxbridge is skewed heavily towards winter-burns.

I think a big part of the problem and the reason some parents wish to delay their child’s start is that we start formal education very early in the U.K. Lots of just four year olds aren’t developmentally ready to sit for long periods of carpet time or learn continuous cursive.

I also don’t think its fair to compare it to schooling in the 80’s and 90’s by saying ‘well we were fine!’. There there were often three intakes into reception a year, most children started the term they turned five rather than when they were just four. It was also pre all the Gove reforms in primary education so things were a bit less pressured for children and teachers.

Of course some August born children will and do thrive, but the research states that many summer born children take years and years to catch up. And of course the kids of the sharp elbowed middle class parents will be the first to gain advantage, but they will pave the way for other children until it becomes normal. My DC’s state nursery actively suggests to some parents of summer born children that they have an extra year there. I think it’s great.

I was at school with a girl born 360 days after me, believe me, as children get older the age difference diminishes.

Maybe you would do better believing the myriad statistics which show the opposite.

This is a decision that should be made for the individual child. If there is a suspicion a child will struggle, they should be able to join a later year. They are doing this almost without question in most areas in Scotland after guidance came out.

@Miljea there are other options in life than going to Oxbridge.

I have an August child and a September one. I definitely think there was a noticeable difference in reception and year one but he absolutely caught up by year 2. They're both now at secondary school and academically very similar. I will say my August son was better socially from the start then my September son was, he made friends so much easier and would of been devastated if his friends from nursery moved up to school and I left him behind to wait a year.

@Remmy123

My son is end of august .. now in year 5 and is fine!!

Reception is like play school .. no need to delay!

I was fine in Y5, too! I got sent to GS a year early because the primary school was bursting at the seams due to local housing developments back in the day when builders didn't have to consider infrastructure.

I was also fine there- til year 10. Then the gap between my friends becoming women and me ...not- opened up.

In retrospect, as a Dec born, it would have advantaged me to be in year at secondary, tho I would have been furious at the time.

An aside- my DS1, 3rd term-born, at infants went into a Y1 class of 25; 21 boys, 4 girls, the other Y1ers (mostly girls!) went into a Y1/2 combination class.

At parents evening, the lovely, mature, experienced teacher asked us how we felt DS1 was doing.

We said 'Well, okay but we do wish he could have repeated Reception'. She said 'Yes, him and at least 18 of the boys in this class'... Absolutely.

In fact, DS1 did repeat a year- Y12. Having through plain immaturity not done as well as he should have at GCSE, then shrugging his way through lower sixth.

He restarted Y12, different trajectory and us now Y3 uni, computer science.

My point is that for some, if not many, they may yet end up repeating a year. It would have been far better for DS to have started reception a year older.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s most schools had two reception intakes, one in september for the older children and one in january for the children born in the latter part of the year. That system does not exist now. Yes it meant the younger children lost a term of reception but they were more school ready when they started reception.

I have a summer born DS and debated holding him back a year. He is very bright and academically able but has speech delay and is emotionally very immature and despite my best efforts not school ready with dressing/undressing, using a knife and fork etc. In the county we live in they have to return to their age group at the start of secondary school. I felt year 6 was too important to miss. The very helpful woman in the admissions department did say its mothers of summer born boys who are always worried.
I am sending DS in september but if he could have gone in January it would have been better. The progress he has made from January to now has been huge, the same again and he'd be fine.

This is big on the agenda in Scotland.

Also it affects older deferrals in Scotland. 20 out of 32 local authorities here authorised older deferrals. Ridiculous level of disparity. Either all authorise it or none at all. Otherwise unfair for children who get denied the chance of extra time at nursery who really need it.

Automatic deferrals though from 2023 where funding is allocated if a parent wants their (August to December) born child to get extra time in an ELC setting before starting primary school.

There's downsides to being the oldest in the year too, reception repeats so much of what is learnt at nursery, my dd was really bored in reception going over the basic letters and phonics so many times.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Miljea there are other options in life than going to Oxbridge.[/quote]

Um- I'm not quite sure where to begin with that....

No one has suggested that the only goal in life is Oxbridge. But- what if you didn't get a shot at it because the A stream only admitted the kids with the top SATS? This dictates which Maths GCSE paper they sit; double science versus triple science. Etc.

It's really as simple as this.

I have already stated that my son was actually doing better for his age at Xmas, Y3, than a friend's son had achieved in the Y2 summer SATS, when this boy was then actually relatively older than my son.

It's also about confidence. Imagine being the bigger, stronger, taller child, praised for your sporting and intellectual ability. That bodes well for your future.

The stats don't lie. You're more likely to get a shot at life's glittering prizes if you're first term born than third term born.

@mayblossominapril

In the 1980s and into the 1990s most schools had two reception intakes, one in september for the older children and one in january for the children born in the latter part of the year. That system does not exist now. Yes it meant the younger children lost a term of reception but they were more school ready when they started reception.

I have a summer born DS and debated holding him back a year. He is very bright and academically able but has speech delay and is emotionally very immature and despite my best efforts not school ready with dressing/undressing, using a knife and fork etc. In the county we live in they have to return to their age group at the start of secondary school. I felt year 6 was too important to miss. The very helpful woman in the admissions department did say its mothers of summer born boys who are always worried.
I am sending DS in september but if he could have gone in January it would have been better. The progress he has made from January to now has been huge, the same again and he'd be fine.

It may not formally exist but you still have the right to delay until term after five, or if Summer born start at Easter and keep the allocated Reception place before moving to year 1 in September. Disadvantage is the youngest then only have one term of Early Years to settle at school.