Is there anything to be done other than just not go?

[MusicMenu]

I have a small group of middle aged women friends who enjoy a social bike ride and lunch. Obviously we've done precious little of it recently, but are able to go again now under the rule of six for an outdoor lunch.

We're not quick like lycra clad racers, but we keep a respectable pace and most of us are sensible road users and considerate of drivers.

One of our number is not. She will pull out with out looking, overtake on bends, send abuse back when drivers tell her what they think. Riding behind her is terrifying. We've all tried pointing out the error of her ways, everything from gentle explanations to very forceful "discussions" taking things from the pov of her children losing their mother, how unfair it is to the group, how bad it makes us all look, nothing is going in.

In every other way she's a perfectly good person and a valued friend.

Is there anything we can do?

Personally I think cycling in groups is dangerous and inconsiderate and should be banned. So no you should not go.

tell her straight..

@RedAzalea

tell her straight..

She's been told straight many times. She either laughs it off or rides off in a strop.

Riding in group is safer than riding alone.

Go without her...

Veer off at the first junction & leave her to it.

I think you all need to tell her you don’t want her to come with you any longer. Don’t tell her when you’re going.

@MusicMenu for the cyclists maybe but not for other road users. And not for my poor client who ended up falling because I was late and unable to help her get to the toilet on time. I was late because I had to negotiate 5 bunches of morons on bikes each spread out far enough that getting past any of them was impossible. 15 f***g miles I was stuck behind them.

Cyclists should only be on the road in groups small enough to safely overtake. So in 2s or 3s max!

[quote Dobbyafreeelf]**@MusicMenu* for the cyclists maybe but not for other road users. And not for my poor client who ended up falling because I was late and unable to help her get to the toilet on time. I was late because I had to negotiate 5 bunches of morons on bikes each spread out far enough that getting past any of them was impossible. 15 f**g miles I was stuck behind them.

Cyclists should only be on the road in groups small enough to safely overtake. So in 2s or 3s max![/quote]
They cycled for 15 miles without pulling over to let you past? We wouldn't have done that. Let's not tar everyone with the same brush.

I think if everyone has asked her and told her, then she can't really complain if you arrange the next ride without her. You've tried to explain why you don't like her riding with the group and she doesn't want to make changes, so she needs to ride alone or find a group who don't mind her.

What on earth is social about a bike ride?

Wouldn't it be more sociable to catch a bus and go for a walk?

Why are you thinking the group shouldn’t go when it’s one person who’s the problem?

You’ve told her, she DGAF, so now you need to not include her in the ride if she won’t play nicely,

@MusicMenu no as I said there were at least five groups. You'd eventually get past one group only for there to be another a few hundred meters further on.
I have yet to have a single cyclist pull over. I have been called unrepeatable names when I asked one not to wave traffic on. So maybe I am tarring you all with the same brush but not one cyclist has given me any reason to think differently.

Dobby I'm not sure this is the right thread for general cyclist commentary.

Loads of cyclists are also drivers- it's not either or.

They are also a lot more vulnerable than a person in a car. I give them patience and space. It's good exercise, good for the environment etc. Yes some are dicks but so are some other car drivers, van drivers, pedestrians etc.

OP - tricky one. I wouldn't stop going and it would be shitty to eg change the day and not tell her- she will probably find out.
Does she not recognise at all that she's more random and aggressive than anyone else?

What you could do is see if there is something like this in your area. See if you or some of you can go as a group.
You know her- think of what will make her want to go.
If she says no say look we really want to do this and really want you to. Or whatever. In the end it's if she doesn't do it she can't come because she's endangering herself and others. I'm sure you can think how to play it!

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The highway code doesn't say cyclists should pull over does it?

And I don't get this

'I have yet to have a single cyclist pull over. I have been called unrepeatable names when I asked one not to wave traffic on.'

So you want them to keep stopping and starting every time there's a car? That seems rather unreasonable! But at the same time you don't like them indicating it's safe to pass (of course up to you whether it's safe or not).
And in what situation did you have this chat where you were stopped next to a bicycle after they had waved you on and you ignored it (fine) and then presumably wound down your window to tell them not to do it? So in other words you started it.

Highway code says you should be patient, not worry about holding up traffic, and leave lots of room when passing.

I get that lots of people get pissed off with cyclists but try to remember they are way more vulnerable than you, and in a car the car is doing all the work, and so really what does it cost to go slow for a bit?
Do you have this attitude to horses, low power mopeds, tractors?
Do you tell tractor drivers or milk float drivers off if they wave you past?

@NiceGerbil

The highway code doesn't say cyclists should pull over does it?

And I don't get this

'I have yet to have a single cyclist pull over. I have been called unrepeatable names when I asked one not to wave traffic on.'

So you want them to keep stopping and starting every time there's a car? That seems rather unreasonable! But at the same time you don't like them indicating it's safe to pass (of course up to you whether it's safe or not).
And in what situation did you have this chat where you were stopped next to a bicycle after they had waved you on and you ignored it (fine) and then presumably wound down your window to tell them not to do it? So in other words you started it.

Highway code says you should be patient, not worry about holding up traffic, and leave lots of room when passing.

I get that lots of people get pissed off with cyclists but try to remember they are way more vulnerable than you, and in a car the car is doing all the work, and so really what does it cost to go slow for a bit?
Do you have this attitude to horses, low power mopeds, tractors?
Do you tell tractor drivers or milk float drivers off if they wave you past?

@NiceGerbil so you think it is reasonable for 20 cyclists to hold up a line of traffic whilst they have a jolly riding at about 15 miles per hour on a national speed limit road? Not for a few minutes but for mile upon mile? It is impossible to get past that many on the twisty hilly roads round here. I am both a horse rider and tractor driver. As a horse rider I would never use those roads as they are too fast for horses. But in general if a car needs to pass and their is insufficient room you trot on and find a gateway so they can. As a vulnerable road user on a potentially unpredictable mount it serves nobody to keep vehicles behind you. Horse riders rarely are out in more than 2s or 3s. So they are not a problem to get past generally. As for tractor drivers it is the Highway Code for tractor drivers to pull over if there is more than 6 vehicles queuing to get past. Generally they do when safe to do so. But even at their slowest they are moving quicker than the cyclists are. Tractor drivers are also at work and using the roads to get from A to B. I have no problem with cyclists who are commuting. But I do strongly object to cyclists who are using the roads as a race track. For pleasure not need and at the expense of those of us who need to get somewhere. And actually it does cost at lot more to be traveling in a car so slowly. Often having to drop int 1st gear. It's inefficient and the past 2 weekends I have used approximately 20% more fuel as a result. So financially it has an impact too.

And @NiceGerbil nobody should ever wave anyone on. It is the drivers responsibility to judge whether it was safe or not.

The two vile men who were rude to me I was trying to pass on a narrow lane on the moor. They waved me on and I ignored them. They then shouted at me that it was fg safe to pass come on. I already had the windows down because it was hot. A few hundred metres further the road widened and I overtook them with them laughing and sticking fingers up at me. I then pulled into the farm driveway and stopped to pick up the post and spoke to them at which point they called me a stupid fg c**t!!!

Agree it is not on to ride next to each other. That is not on.

If it was a narrow lane though could you have got past safely even if they were single file?

In the end, all sorts of road users can be dicks. But very few people will challenge a couple of blokes in a van who cuts them up etc.

Bottom line is areseholes or otherwise, they are much more vulnerable than you. In an altercation between a car and a bicycle the bicycle loses.

'For pleasure not need and at the expense of those of us who need to get somewhere.'

We have loads of great cyclists. They ride on the roads.

'The mother of the cyclist Chris Boardman has been killed in a collision while cycling, her son has announced.

Carol Boardman, herself a former racing cyclist, died from injuries sustained in collision with a pick-up truck while out riding her bike in north Wales, the former Olympic cycling champion said.'

Was she commuting? No idea.

'PARALYMPIAN cyclist Simon Richardson was in “good spirits” despite breaking his back in two places, fracturing his pelvis and having to breathe with just one lung following an alleged hit-and-run incident.

The 44-year-old from Porthcawl, who won two gold medals and a silver at the 2008 Beijing Games, was hit by a van while on his bike on the A48 near Bridgend on Wednesday.'

Was he commuting? No idea.

Etc etc etc.

Many cyclists also drive cars. They are not a different species.

You say no one in the UK should cycle for fun, exercise or sport. I think that's a strange view.

Dobby start your own thread if you want to complain about cycling. OK so you got stuck in traffic a few times, I get stuck in traffic a few times a week, the cause is always an accident between two or more cars. And sorry someone was rude to you but I've been called names by drivers and also just people walking, maybe we should ban walking on the street also.

As to your question OP, there is nothing you can do that she won't think is really rude. If it was me I'd put up with it but be seething inside. Sorry not helpful

I agree.

I find the cyclist hate very odd.

Dobby you feel strongly start another thread.

What do you think you should do?

OP, sorry but this woman sounds like a real danger to all of you, unless the rest of you are always at least a couple of hundred yards before or behind her. Her actions could (as I assume you are all well aware) result in a motorised vehicle taking avoidance action to not hit her (or be hit by her - for her sake), and that avoidance action could mean that instead of them killing or maiming her, they plough into the rest of you instead, or another vehicle/person.

All of these normal human reactions can happen in a split second, as humans, faced with potential danger, most of us will have our brains hard wired to avoid the imminent danger, and just not have the time for our brains to work out that actually if we don't avoid this particular danger/person/cyclist, that person may end up dead, but the group of people/cyclists will not be maimed or killed. Of course avoidance actions by any type of motorist can also be dangerous/fatal for themselves, because they could swing themselves into the path of another vehicle.

Even if this woman was the only one to be maimed/killed, the rest of you will have either witnessed the event, or the aftermath very quickly afterwards, and that could be absolutely horrific and traumatic for all of you, and the poor driver of the vehicle. So I think that you as a group, and/or as individuals, are duty bound to tell her that she can no longer ride with you, as she obviously either doesn't understand the rules of the road, or just doesn't care. If you wish you can say to her that she will be welcome to join you again once she has shown you an up-to-date advanced cyclist proficiency certificate.

This is not being horrible to her, it could make the diference between at least one death, or even multiple deaths.

Cycling is a wonderful exercise, especially in the countryside, where there is hopefully much cleaner air to breathe in, rather than in an urban situation, and unless you are a mountain bike enthusiast, country riding will, by necessity, mainly consist of riding on narrow country roads. All any of us can do on the roads (whether we are on foot, riding a pedal bike or a horse, or in a motorised vehicle), is make sure that we are well versed in, and pratice, the safest way of doing our mode of exercise/transport.

Unfortunately we all need to be aware that any other road user may suffer from crass stupidity, and short of locking ourselves away in our own homes (which can also be dangerous - just visit any A&E department for a couple of days), we just have to lessen any particular danger as much as possible, whilst still being able to enjoy our activity. In this case that means follow your instincts, and no longer ride with this woman. Please.

Bloody Hell, I had loads of double spaced paragraphs!! If any of you have bothered to wade through my above tirade, thank you. I do hope that it wasn't too boring or preachy...

Make your own plans if she's going. She is putting your lives in danger too.
Not worth the risk

Loving dobby complaining about cyclists when they ride a horse on public roads!!!! I don’t ride either a horse or a bike, but find horses infinitely more annoying as a driver. Ok, horses often aren’t on main roads, but it’s very tricky to get past them on little country lanes, quite often there will be 2 horses, one with a fairly small child on it (people with small children don’t usually let them ride on roads), which makes me nervous. Horses travel far slower than cyclists (on roads) and there’s always the fear the horse may do something unpredictable if you get too close or the engine is too loud. Far more disruptive to me than a cyclist (who I admit, I have also been frustrated by int be past).

Back to the original OP. I’d start planning to go without her. If she finds out, you’ve told her why. You can always arrange other activities which do include her, just don’t ride with her.

@modgepodge

Loving dobby complaining about cyclists when they ride a horse on public roads!!!! I don’t ride either a horse or a bike, but find horses infinitely more annoying as a driver. Ok, horses often aren’t on main roads, but it’s very tricky to get past them on little country lanes, quite often there will be 2 horses, one with a fairly small child on it (people with small children don’t usually let them ride on roads), which makes me nervous. Horses travel far slower than cyclists (on roads) and there’s always the fear the horse may do something unpredictable if you get too close or the engine is too loud. Far more disruptive to me than a cyclist (who I admit, I have also been frustrated by int be past).

Back to the original OP. I’d start planning to go without her. If she finds out, you’ve told her why. You can always arrange other activities which do include her, just don’t ride with her.

Sorry in the middle there it should say people don’t usually let small children ride BIKES on roads