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Original poster

Traveller children and PSHE

73 replies

simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 16:52

Year 4 learnt about puberty and loving relationships this week. Why were the traveller children removed?

OP posts:
PandemicPalava · 06/05/2021 16:56

We're they? Was there a sex Ed permission form they didn't return?

AllDoneIn · 06/05/2021 16:56

Where was this? Traveller communities have very strict morals around sexuality so it's possibly a bit like a parent opting out on religious grounds. I don't agree with this but it happens.

romdowa · 06/05/2021 16:56

Their parents may have asked for them to be removed?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Primary education
DinosaurDiana · 06/05/2021 16:56

You can choose to remove your children. I assume they did.

Clymene · 06/05/2021 16:57

Because it's every parent's right to remove their children.

Peachyqueen · 06/05/2021 16:59

Not really any of your business, is it?

sunflowersandbuttercups · 06/05/2021 17:06

Any parent can remove their child from PHSE.

Original poster
simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 17:07

I know you can choose to remove your children. I'm interested to know why, and if these children will receive this information at home.

The year 4 children have learnt so much in PSHE this week to prepare and reassure them about puberty etc.

OP posts:
Ticklemycarpets · 06/05/2021 17:09

At our school it was also the traveller families who removed their kids from sex ed. I'd also like to understand the culture better to understand why this is.

TheSpottedZebra · 06/05/2021 17:10

Well this is a goady thread.

Original poster
simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 17:10

It wasn't 'sex Ed' though. They were taught about changes to their body, puberty and what constitutes a loving relationship.

OP posts:
SpongeCakeAddict · 06/05/2021 17:15

My only concern would be if it's the men saying they can't attend, because I've recently had my eyes opened to some information about (hopefully just 'some') traveller families and the normalisation of control and physical abuse of females. If it sadly is a part of the entire culture to behave as I've been told, then removing children from lessons where they learn about how to seek help, would be normal. Really don't want to be flamed for saying this. And I really hope what my friend has been put through (and is still experiencing despite court action) isn't the norm.

Checkingout811 · 06/05/2021 17:15

Because they will be taught this by their mothers.
Just like everyone else, they have the right to remove their children.

Happylittlethoughts · 06/05/2021 17:18
  1. Because they have a right to.
  2. Strong cultural beliefs may clash with this curriculum at this stage in childhood.
  3. Lack of trust in the education system and curricular relevance
murbblurb · 06/05/2021 17:19

This country assumes that parents have the best interests of their children at heart and will advocate for them to have all the knowledge they need to have choices and safety.

That is not the case for all parents and by no means exclusive to the group you mention.

Original poster
simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 17:21

@Happylittlethoughts

1. Because they have a right to.
  1. Strong cultural beliefs may clash with this curriculum at this stage in childhood.
  2. Lack of trust in the education system and curricular relevance
Thank you
OP posts:
Mydarlingmyhamburger · 06/05/2021 17:21

There’s a very large travelling community where I live. The majority of the children don’t attend school at all, I’m not sure why they’re exempt from the normal laws. In our local secondary school (Wales) they actually have a class set up with a teacher just to teach any gypsy (I’m not even sure if people use that word anymore, but it’s what they call themselves) children that choose to come in. Out of the gypsy children there are two that attend all the normal lessons, just over a dozen that just attend this class (as and when they feel like), but most of the kids don’t bother at all.

idontlikealdi · 06/05/2021 17:23

It's y5 for that where I am but we had to sign a consent form. A couple of kids didn't participate for religious reasons.

There is a large settled travelling community where I am - they have teachers that go on to site to try to provide an education. The vast majority don't attend mainstream school.

Fitforforty · 06/05/2021 17:29

@Mydarlingmyhamburger

There’s a very large travelling community where I live. The majority of the children don’t attend school at all, I’m not sure why they’re exempt from the normal laws. In our local secondary school (Wales) they actually have a class set up with a teacher just to teach any gypsy (I’m not even sure if people use that word anymore, but it’s what they call themselves) children that choose to come in. Out of the gypsy children there are two that attend all the normal lessons, just over a dozen that just attend this class (as and when they feel like), but most of the kids don’t bother at all.
No child has to go to school. They need to be educated but this can be done at home.
Mydarlingmyhamburger · 06/05/2021 17:31

@Fitforforty I’m aware of that. The children are not being home educated though.

GeorgeandHarold66 · 06/05/2021 17:34

@sunflowersandbuttercups

Any parent can remove their child from PHSE.
No actually they can't now, it's a statutory subject as of this year. They can be withdrawn from lessons strictly relating to sex, but if the lesson covers things that are on the science curriculum (which puberty is) or anything about relationships, parents can't ask for their children to be withdrawn.
TurquoiseLemur · 06/05/2021 17:36

@SpongeCakeAddict

My only concern would be if it's the men saying they can't attend, because I've recently had my eyes opened to some information about (hopefully just 'some') traveller families and the normalisation of control and physical abuse of females. If it sadly is a part of the entire culture to behave as I've been told, then removing children from lessons where they learn about how to seek help, would be normal. Really don't want to be flamed for saying this. And I really hope what my friend has been put through (and is still experiencing despite court action) isn't the norm.
Thank you for having the courage to say this. No doubt someone will soon be along to accuse you of racism. Traveller culture IS very patriarchal, and with patriarchy comes a lot of DV and attempts to cover it up. Am absolutely not saying that all travellers behave like this, of course not. Or that other people don't.

The Guardian deleted a comment I made on a thread some years ago when I expressed concern about very young girls from Eastern European Gipsy families in Britain having babies. I'm talking about 12-year-olds, and gave an example of this I had encountered myself. A 12-year-old who gives birth has been abused! By definition. And you can bet everything you own that if the 12-year-old daughter of a middle-class, non-Gipsy, white and well-paid journalist at the Guardian got pregnant, there'd be huge amounts of concern in that quarter. But if it happens in the Gipsy community, it is just excused (by aforementioned privileged people) as "cultural differences."

Flugbusters840 · 06/05/2021 17:42

To OPs original question - religious reasons I would think. There is a large community of Travellers in my home town and they are very adherent Catholics.

Mydarlingmyhamburger · 06/05/2021 17:44

@TurquoiseLemur this is exactly it. I was married to one for 6 years and spent just under 2 living on the site. I left after an accidental pregnancy which I miscarried. As horrible as it sounds I was grateful for the miscarriage as it meant I wouldn’t have to raise a girl in that lifestyle. I’d rather break up my marriage than raise a child the way I’d be expected to.