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Traveller children and PSHE

73 replies

simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 16:52

Year 4 learnt about puberty and loving relationships this week. Why were the traveller children removed?

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 06/05/2021 19:28

@Inthesameboatatmo

Hi op I'm romany gypsy. Not traveller they are different. But they share the same morals with regards to sex and all of those things . Very very strict is all I can say and tend to marry others in the same community or cousins. Hence why I ran away at 15 and have never ever been with a gypsy or traveller and would not except at all one of my children with one . They are a breed and law unto themselves. The men treat their women like dirt .
Thank you for this.

It's really good to be educated into other communities and their systems and beliefs to understand their decisions.

I always understood they were very strict on no sex before marriage and that's why they often married young?

Bookridden · 06/05/2021 19:29

I don't have an opinion on the subject of the OP, but I do have a problem with the people telling her that she shouldn't even ask on her. Why the hell not? These forums are a great place to ask questions that might not be appropriate or tactful for public conversations.

itsgettingwierd · 06/05/2021 19:33

@MintyMabel

No, I don't know. I'm a TA.

Then you don’t need to know.

they aren’t being educated at home

You don’t know that. Home education doesn’t need to follow the curriculum that you deem as education.

People don't need to know about 90% of the information they do or ask about.

There is nothing wrong with asking why to questions. After all - it's better to be educated and know because you may be able to do something useful with the information.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Inthesameboatatmo · 06/05/2021 19:46

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fiddie · 06/05/2021 20:12

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simpleyellowshoes · 06/05/2021 20:16

Thanks for all the useful info and thank you to people who have posted with personal experience on the matter. I do feel more informed and it's given me the space I needed to think it all through. I was pretty shocked when I was told why certain children were absent as it just hadn't crossed my mind. My initial concern is for their well-being and hoping they won't just have to fumble their way through puberty in the dark whereas their peers are all well informed. I'm signing off now 👋

OP posts:
EstherMumsnet · 06/05/2021 20:17

We'll sort that namechange fail out for you now.

ElphabaTWitch · 06/05/2021 20:39

No idea. But the tv will have you believe that boys have to drag a kicking /screaming/reluctant girl to dance so she will be his forever. And it’s every traveller girls dream to be forcibly removed without permission in this manner. Apparently. Hmm

Hm37 · 06/05/2021 21:02

No idea. But the tv will have you believe that boys have to drag a kicking /screaming/reluctant girl to dance so she will be his forever. And it’s every traveller girls dream to be forcibly removed without
permission in this manner. Apparently. hmm

I’m sure we all know how much reality is actually shown in these reality shows I am extremely proud of my true traveller culture and I can safety say I’ve been happily married over 10yrs my husband has never lifted a finger to me before or since marriage which is the way it should be nothing special about it no one has the right to force someone or lay a finger on anyone it is just not ok at all and I can tell anyone without a shadow of a doubt true travellers are just as disgusted by the embarrassments on them shows as non-travellers.

Luckychant · 07/05/2021 19:08

IME its because they don't want their kids to be taught that it's okay to be gay or that women can have full time jobs.

Mrgrinch · 07/05/2021 19:12

I'm a gypsy and I withdraw my children.

I find the fact that you work in a school with traveller children and you don't even know something that basic to be quite sad. If there's anything else you need to know then feel free to ask as our children are never catered to in education in the way others are.

Mrgrinch · 07/05/2021 19:15

It might be a good idea to start by learning whether they're gypsies or Irish travellers. The term traveller is used as an umbrella to lump them together but they are two completely different ethnic groups.

modgepodge · 07/05/2021 20:02

I’m surprised the school allowed them to be withdrawn (or were they simply not sent to school that day as parents knew that’s what would be taught?)

My understanding is that the law has now changed and the only part they can be withdrawn from is the ‘sex’ bit, not puberty or relationships. And if the sex bit is part of the science curriculum, they can’t be withdrawn even then. Someone posted some links up thread which outline this. It’s changed in the last year or so. Unless I’ve misunderstood. I teach SRE in primary and we changed our letter to parents this year; it no longer says ‘If you wish to withdraw your child...’ as that is no longer an option.

Ghostofborleyrectory · 07/05/2021 20:11

As a TA myself, surprised you have to ask such a question on Mumsnet instead of either talking to someone at your school or learning about it in training days.

Thgm37 · 07/05/2021 22:29

@Luckychant
There are plenty gay travellers and the fact that non travellers believe female travellers do not work is quite frankly comical and Really it shows just how much people believe whatever the media portrays of minorities, I have female family that are nurses, midwifes, carers, chefs, bakers, hairdressers and much much more

Rubyupbeat · 08/05/2021 00:52

This is why travellers and gypsies remove their children from school by year 7 , generally. They are very old fashioned about sexual knowledge and also don't want their children corrupted by non-traveller children.
My mum used to teach traveller children on site, she loved it and formed great relationships with the families.

Rubyupbeat · 08/05/2021 00:54

@Mrgrinch I agree

Steelix · 09/05/2021 13:10

@Mrgrinch

I'm a gypsy and I withdraw my children.

I find the fact that you work in a school with traveller children and you don't even know something that basic to be quite sad. If there's anything else you need to know then feel free to ask as our children are never catered to in education in the way others are.

Why do you withdraw your children?
Xenia · 14/05/2021 14:44

Those interested in traveller issues in general might like to read this new court case in case www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2021/1201.html

Summary
Court cracks down on ‘Traveller injunctions’

"Courts cannot grant final injunctive relief against 'newcomer' Travellers and Gypsies who arrive after litigation has ended, the High Court has ruled, following an injunction ‘feeding frenzy’ among local authorities.

In London Borough of Barking and Dagenham & Ors v Persons Unknown & Ors, Mr Justice Nicklin looked at injunctions granted in 38 different sets of proceedings to local authorities, which prohibit the unauthorised occupation or use of land. The injunctions - granted against ‘Persons Unknown’ - mainly affect Gypsy and Traveller communities.

In judgment, Nicklin J ruled that so-called ‘Traveller injunctions’ are subject to the principle that a final injunction only binds the parties to the action at the date of the order. ‘It is fundamental to our process of civil litigation that the court cannot grant a final order against someone who is not party to the claim,’ he said.

‘A court cannot, at a trial, adjudicate whether a claimant has established an entitlement to a remedy against a defendant unless it is possible to identify who that defendant is and whether the claimant has demonstrated, by evidence, that s/he has committed some act that entitles the claimant to relief.’

The court rejected the argument that local authorities are in a privileged position to obtain final orders that bind newcomers. Nicklin J also found that Traveller injunctions do not fall into the exceptional category where the court is compelled to act by way of contra mundum injunction against all persons generally.

Nickin J concluded that ‘that there are grounds to suspect that, in a significant number of applications for interim injunctions, there were material and serious breaches of the procedural requirements and the procedures of the court…have been abused’.

‘This judgment is not the place to go into these matters further, but I will ensure, so far as possible, that they will be properly investigated. Looking to the future, the experience in the cohort claims demonstrates that the court needs to adopt measures to ensure that “Persons Unknown” injunctions (and powers of arrest) are only granted in appropriate cases and are subject to proper safeguards,’ he said.

Nicklin J discharged several injunction orders against ‘Persons Unknown’. In the remaining claims, where interim injunctions have been granted, the local authorities were given seven days to consider whether they wish to proceed with their claim against 'Persons Unknown'.

Cornerstone Barristers, which represented three of the local authorities involved in the case, said the judgment will 'strike a death knell' to the use of such injunctions by local authorities, save in 'narrow and limited' cases."

NutellaEllaElla · 14/05/2021 15:05

I am shocked and horrified at the posters telling OP she shouldn't be asking, doesn't need to know etc etc! Why not? What's wrong with just asking? OP wasn't showing judgement. If you think the reasons are going to invite judgement then that's interesting but again, why shouldn't people know?? How bizarre to be on a forum and tell people they shouldn't even talk about something in a neutral way.

Captpike · 14/05/2021 16:59

@xenia I don't know what all that has to do with withdrawing their children from sex Ed.

MrsFionaCharming · 14/05/2021 18:48

This weird secrecy where asking about other cultures is apparently rude only perpetuates ignorance and stereotypes.

By asking on here, OP has had a range of responses, including from people within the relevant communities. Which can surely only make her better equipped to work with these children.

NutellaEllaElla · 14/05/2021 19:02

And by the way, it's a bit of a vicious cycle isn't it that some people on this thread are dismayed at OPs lack of knowledge, while others are telling her it's not her business and she shouldn't be asking! How are we supposed to become culturally sensitive if we've only got rumours and hearsay to go by!

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