Any car insurance experts? I've fucked up massively :(

[G3ntlemanJ]

And it's not me that's affected, it's my dd.

She's had her licence for 18m and from the very start I was in charge of her insurance, organising and paying for it. Direct debit set up for monthly payments.

Dd (19) was stopped on the motorway by police two days ago for not having insurance. Apparently the policy ended in January!! It didn't auto renew, which is what I had assumed. Stupid, I know.

After searching my email account I found one email from them saying there was a number to call to renew the policy, but it had gone into my spam and I'd totally missed it. We have otherwise had absolutely no communication from them. No letter to say it was going to be cancelled, no letter confirming it had been cancelled.

Because dd has had her licence for under two years she now faces 6 points on her licence and it being revoked and then taking her test again.

I am absolutely devastated to have done this to her and I feel so, so guilty.

But I can't help thinking that the insurance company are at fault too? Surely we should have had some further communication from them? From what I've read online they have to take 'reasonable steps' to notify the policyholder and this doesn't seem to have been done here, so we were reasonable to think it auto-renewed.

Does anyone have any advice at all??

Massive TIA!

I thought all insurance policies now did auto-renew to prevent drivers being without insurance.

Mine is always an auto renew no matter who I am with. I have a reminder set in my phone but I also get a letter from the insurance company with the renewal quote. At that point I go onto a compare site and run my details through.

To those saying she is 19, as a university student you are classed as being the responsibility of your parents because it is the household income that determines the amount of maintenance loan a student can apply for. As for not noticing the payments have stopped some people have enough money that they don't need to micromanage their finances.

If he earns £7k per month and you presumably earn too, why are you seeking legal advice on mumsnet? Surely you can afford a solicitor.

To those saying she is 19, as a university student you are classed as being the responsibility of your parents because it is the household income that determines the amount of maintenance loan a student can apply for.

This is only for finance. In the eyes of the law you are absolutely responsible for yourself .

@denverRegina

"You clearly haven't read the post where I expressly said that I wasn't looking for people to take the blame - I have fully accepted that it's my fault."

You clearly said you rang your magistrate ex husband for something you could "use" and that you "can't help thinking the insurance company are at fault".

Use for mitigation, not blame.

I know you're helping your daughter, it's lovely and I wish I had that kind of support. Unfortunately the law won't see it like that. It's a terrible situation for you and your daughter

I think going forward you could transfer the money to your daughter, along with all the policy information and she can keep it up to date herself?

Will she have to re-book her test?

@IbrahimaRedTwo

Which would mean monthly DD of over £80. That's not something "missable"!

Of course it is, to a lot of people. I might not notice 80 quid here or there.

Unmissable for us, not everyone.

I used to work for an insurance company. You had an annual policy and the company wrote to you to remind you that the policy was due for renewal. And you didn’t respond. Just how many times do you expect them to write? You’re an adult and responsible for managing your own administration.

Some clients had auto renewals and you wouldn’t believe the number of phone calls we used to get from customers screaming at us asking how dare we automatically renew their policy and that they’d gone somewhere else.

If an insurer writes to you to advise that your policy is due for renewal then the onus is on you to renew it.

We used to get calls as well from people who had forgotten to insure their car and had then caused an accident. And then not only were they charged with driving without insurance, but they ended up having to foot the bill for the other person’s car.

Your DD is lucky the police didn’t remove her car. They have every right to if she’s driving with no insurance.

What awful bitchy people on here. We all make mistakes/ oversights, OP, that's what makes us human. Ignore the perfect posters who never put a foot wrong

@TonyChestnut

This isn't a question for insurance experts. The facts are plain: at the time she was stopped she had no insurance. Even if they wanted to, the insurance company cannot now backdate your cover.

However, there is hope although your fate does lie in the hands of the magistrates. I have seen exactly this situation in court - the (adult) child and the mother both genuinely believed she was covered on the mother's insurance, and the magistrates awarded no penalty.

Your daughter will need to plead guilty but argue special reasons. As a six point penalty is effectively a ban you might find a sympathetic bench will show mercy, but this is a discretionary matter so make sure you get proper legal advice. It will be worth the money.

Magistrates (and courts) aren't as scary as you might think, and possible fines aside, the court fees should only be £85 which could be money well spent.

Thank you.

There's no appeal possible with 'no insurance' it called an absolute offence so there are no excuses .

'Driving without insurance is an absolute offence. This means that if you drive without insurance there is no excuse, you are guilty. In the law there is no defence. For example saying 'I didn't know I had no insurance, the insurance company cancelled without telling me' is not acceptable.'

Well I think you got off very lightly tbh, I’d have had a lot more sympathy for the poor person in the other vehicle if there had been an accident and she’d been uninsured. Missing an email and not noticing payments have stopped are absolutely no excuse. You have no legal case to fight it.

@FunTimes2020

What awful bitchy people on here. We all make mistakes/ oversights, OP, that's what makes us human. Ignore the perfect posters who never put a foot wrong

I bet you wouldn't be saying that if OPDD had bumped your car though. It's all good and well calling people 'perfect' but realistically between 3 adults it's hard to see how nobody noticed the car insurance needed to be dealt with. You don't need to be perfect, just about adequate IMO.

I don't think she'll be able to get out of it.

However people saying "she should have known", are not being totally fair.
For me, dh sorts the car insurance, I sort breakdown service, servicing, MOT, any repairs (minor ones I do myself) and everything else. I might say to dh "oh the insurance is coming up, have you sorted it?" But I might not. As he's an adult I'd assume he had done it without me methering. Equally well, he might ask when the MOT is due if he thought we're getting close and he hadn't heard anything about it being done, but he'd probably assume that I'd done it without evidence to the contrary.

It's not necessarily silly to assume that another adult, who has taken responsibility for something has done it. I'm not being babied by dh when he renews my insurance any more than I'm babying him when I change the tyre on his car.
OP is feeling worse because her mistake is going to be a huge hassle for someone else. We all would.

Eep, sorry for your situation, OP. It's taught me something though - I've been driving for 18m and my DH has put me on his insurance. I really do need to check this all out for myself!

I've literally just renewed my insurance today. They sent me an email a month before, and then weekly, and then a couple this week. They tried to take the payment yesterday (day before payday and 3 days before due ) so I had to do it today.

I had a call at 9am, a call at 10am (while I was on the phone with another advisor actually doing the renewal!) and then another at 11.

How they've sent one email and no other contact is absolutely mad.

Hope they're lenient OP.

@SoAnn0yed393

At 17 deemed old enough to drive a car, at 70 mph & carry passengers, plus insure, tax & MOT, in all kinds of weathers & driving conditions

There is responsibility to oneself & others

It is NOT acceptable to be writing or calling anyone to say "my mother...."

It’s worth a shot!!

@rainbowthoughts

I’d ask to have the points added to your license.

I'm actually stunned that someone thinks this is a possibility. This is real life. 'Can my mum take the points?' isn't really it, you know?

Give over being so dramatic 🙄

Have you heard of first offences?
Have you heard of more lenient ‘sentences’ or warnings?
It’s not like she was caught speeding doing 100mph and didn’t realise...

Given that it was her mam who set up the insurance initially, it’s not unreasonable for her to think that her mother was to be trusted with it.

Don’t you trust your mam? My DH sorts out all of our finances and is happy to take control of it. I don’t make him show me the evidence, I assume that he’s got it in check!

Do I think they’ll give her mother the points? Probably not, but if I was the OP I’d be putting my hands up and at least try to help.

@TonyChestnut

This isn't a question for insurance experts. The facts are plain: at the time she was stopped she had no insurance. Even if they wanted to, the insurance company cannot now backdate your cover.

However, there is hope although your fate does lie in the hands of the magistrates. I have seen exactly this situation in court - the (adult) child and the mother both genuinely believed she was covered on the mother's insurance, and the magistrates awarded no penalty.

Your daughter will need to plead guilty but argue special reasons. As a six point penalty is effectively a ban you might find a sympathetic bench will show mercy, but this is a discretionary matter so make sure you get proper legal advice. It will be worth the money.

Magistrates (and courts) aren't as scary as you might think, and possible fines aside, the court fees should only be £85 which could be money well spent.

However, there is hope although your fate does lie in the hands of the magistrates. I have seen exactly this situation in court - the (adult) child and the mother both genuinely believed she was covered on the mother's insurance, and the magistrates awarded no penalty. Boom - there you go, so it can be taken in to consideration!!

Give over being so dramatic 🙄

I'm not being dramatic. You vent pass your penalty points on to your mum

*cant

If I were your DD, OP, I wouldn't present this as a mitigating circumstance.

It's a basic legal requirement to be insured before getting behind a wheel, and it's absolutely right that she should take the theory test again if she missed this the first time round. I appreciate that you feel guilty for your part in all of this, but you can't undo the past and pleading mitigating circumstances won't undo the past either.

IMO, if she suggests that it wasn't entirely her fault and her mum is at least partly to blame, it might make her appear even less responsible and could end up being detrimental to her case.

If I were her, I'd admit my mistake and acknowledge that I should have paid more attention to the policy documentation. I would also add that although my parents are kindly paying for my insurance, next time I will have the documents sent to my own email address so that I can manage them properly and diarise my own expiry dates.

Was the policy in her name? Did she actually read it at any point?

Just wanted to say OP that it’s such an upsetting mistake and definitely something I can imagine myself doing. So sorry.

Some fuckups are not retrievable. This is one of them. No one has been hurt and the only outcome is that s disorganised female will have to take buses or taxis for a while. And as I said, what did she do to get noticed by the police?

Sorry OP that lots of people are piling on to you when you obviously already feel awful about what's happened. I don't have any advice, it does sound like it's just going to have to be a lesson learned for both of you. But please stop beating yourself up over it. It's done now, just try to move on.

In my experience the default position of an insurance company is to automatically renew. You normally have to take action if you want to cancel (thankfully otherwise I'm sure I'd end up making the same mistake as you)

Also, take the positive from it - this has flagged to you that there was no insurance cover, which you wouldn't have otherwise spotted! Silver linings :)