Do you secretly judge people who announce their pronouns in their emails?

[Mewmin]

I was reading the thread on BBC pronouns earlier and it got me thinking about my own reaction when I come across people who I had previously respected and looked up to who have put their preferred pronouns in their email signature (all female with obviously female names like Annabelle and Rebecca).

Personally I believe it shows a lack of critical thinking and, working in the academic field, I am finding it very difficult not to alter my view of the (very) few colleagues and work contacts who have done this. In one case it has actually made me think twice about working more closely with someone.

Am I alone in this?

I should add that I am supportive of transpeople's rights but don't think that they should override women's rights and I cannot go along with the lack of logical thinking and tautological definitions used in gender ideology.

@CthulhuInDisguise

I have a female colleague with a feminine name whose email signature includes: "they/them, genderqueer, pan, ask me for more info". This has only appeared in the last year, and she's definitely a natal woman. Lunacy.

See - stating your sexuality (‘pan’) in an email signature is just not relevant - or professional, I’d argue - and ‘ask me for more info’ sounds like a pick up line!

@CthulhuInDisguise

I have a female colleague with a feminine name whose email signature includes: "they/them, genderqueer, pan, ask me for more info". This has only appeared in the last year, and she's definitely a natal woman. Lunacy.

Lunacy. It's just so irrelevant to work! I don't care what your gender identity is any more that I care what colour your pants are. Stop making work about politics/discrimination and get on with the bloody job.

Its not far off listing your sexual orientation, religion and any disabilities in your email signature.

Who cares. Just call them what they want and move on. It's important to them and it is literally nothing for you to just say "she" or whatever

Except we're talking about emails, when it's not that common to refer to the person we're emailing in third person.

I had someone recently who kept changing how he ended his emails (think Edward then Ed then Eddie then Ed and so on). I always addressed the next email however he ended the last one.

It didn't take me much effort, though it's a shame that level of detail wasn't reciprocated (he spelled my name wrong far more often than he got 4 letters in the right order with no additions). I have what I think is a very simple 2 syllable name, but I spend a great deal of time having people go on about how they're going to mess it up and basically looking for reassurance that it's okay to not care about my name. I've been called way worse than a dickhead for wanting people to use my name correctly and finding their excuses annoying, especially when they've said it right and then start Anglo it after they see it written down.

I include a pronunciation guide when I'm in Zoom or other online chats whenever I can where it's likely someone who doesn't know me will say my name, because that's important to me (and people still Anglo it anyway). I don't expect other people to start making pronunication guides, I don't include it in my email signature or in other writing when it's irrelevant, and I accept people make mistakes - it's not the end of the world or an insult - and yes some people are dickheads about it. That's life for many of us.

I can get the argument that entirely disregarding people who do this could be discriminatory, but I also think requiring it can also be discriminatory, mostly against some of the very people that those who push this think they're protecting while ignoring that they want to focus on something that may be a source of distress.

I'm just thinking, what if you're dyslexic and are finding that people think you're not very intelligent/educated at work due to spelling mistakes and other errors that spellcheck doesn't pick up on. You could list dyslexic in your email signature to avoid this and then get everyone else in the company should write "not dyslexic" in their email signatures to make you feel more comfortable about telling people about your dyslexia.

I have a female colleague with a feminine name whose email signature includes: "they/them, genderqueer, pan, ask me for more info"

Who in their right mind wants to know about what genitals a colleague likes to have sex with?

Do I go up to this person and ask about their sex life? Why are they volunteering to discuss their personal life with random work colleagues.

I do not care what is in your pants. I do not care who you sleep with and what genitals are in the pants of those you choose to have sex with.

Yes. Because they always have names that are exclusively associated with one particular sex. And their pronoun is always the one that is of that sex. Which absolutely everyone would have assumed anyway.

@OnSilverStars

*Who cares. Just call them what they want and move on. It's important to them and it is literally nothing for you to just say "she" or whatever

You are all the dickheads*

Should the dickheads be signing off he/him?

As with most things ‘gender’ - the push to get everyone to be more inclusive is actually extremely exclusionary in many other ways.

I really hate ‘gender’.

I like diversity an awful lot. More diversity please. But ‘gender’ can do one. It’s unnecessary. What actual good is it, to anyone?

I have a female colleague with a feminine name whose email signature includes: "they/them, genderqueer, pan, ask me for more info

That's hilarious! Its like me signing of my work emails with ' I only shag men! Ask me more. Especially if you are Dave from Accounts.'

No because apparently "women have penises too"

(Sorry that was in response to whether dickheads should sign off and he/him)

That's hilarious! Its like me signing of my work emails with ' I only shag men! Ask me more. Especially if you are Dave from Accounts

You need to be more specific. Are you superstraight and only shag cis men? Or do you shag men with vaginas as well?

@bluebluezoo

That's hilarious! Its like me signing of my work emails with ' I only shag men! Ask me more. Especially if you are Dave from Accounts

You need to be more specific. Are you superstraight and only shag cis men? Or do you shag men with vaginas as well?

Its pretty much Dave from Accounts I am going for, tbh

I actually find it quite helpful

• Firstly because 95% of the people I work with have foreign names and many don't have LI profiles (not as popular in their countries, and some shouldn't have public profiles anyway) so I can't just look up a picture. Due to cultural norms it's polite, even between peers, at least for the first few messages, to use title (Dear Dr/Prof/Mr/Mrs/Ms etc), and I always end up wasting time trying to google them and figure out which it is, before crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. Listing pronouns isn't common, but when used it is helpful.

• Secondly because I've worked closely with 2 people where I've genuinely not been sure of their gender, due to their appearance combined with a neutral name. It's fine not knowing for face to face communication, because I can say 'you', but harder in 3rd person referrals. Using 'they', when you haven't been told to do so, sort of shines a spotlight on the person, whether cis or trans, who might not appreciate it, for a multitude of reasons. One person started listing (Mr) in brackets, which was helpful, but many are Prof/Dr, which are neutral.

Email signatures are going to look like Twitter bios soon.

Kind Regards,
X
Remainer/FBPE/BLM/I stand with Corbyn/Tory Scum/Anti-European Super League is pro-Brexit/Hate Brexit/Jaffa cakes are a biscuit. Podcast here: (link)

take on the European Super League, and here it is in all its glory.

But I don't think people should be forced to list their pronouns.

@AChickenCalledDaal

It's a pretty massive and insulting assumption that someone like my non-binary adult child are narcissistic and lacks social skills, just because they have a different view on gender than you do

The horrible mess of grammar in this sentence (someone like my non-binary adult child are narcissistic) is a nice, neat demonstration of the kind of mangling of language and thought that results.

@Darker

If you are are dismissing it you are just showing your privilege. Judging people for stuff you don't care to understand is horrible.

No. Nonsense.

If I put my signature with the normal format ie

Best wishes
Lemon

Mrs. L Roses

Everyone knows my preferred name, my preferred title and how to address me formally. They don’t know my sex (but could hazard a guess). My sex is irrelevant to all except an obstetrician and gynaecologist or other medical professional in a field where sex mattered.

It might be helpful with an unusual name but for most people it’s just self indulgent or corporate claptrap.

It’s not about the women themselves. They are putting themselves out there as an ally, similar to a straight person wearing a rainbow lanyard

But you are at work. You shouldn't be attaching your work identity to your political beliefs on a controversial issue.

If you are are dismissing it you are just showing your privilege. Judging people for stuff you don't care to understand is horrible

I do understand. I just have a different opinion to you on where the harm is being caused on this issue.

I definitely judge people that put their pronouns in their email signatures. I think it's really self indulgent - in my experience nobody in the work environment really gives a shit whether you are a boy, girl, of no fixed gender or an exciting combination of the two. I don't know why people feel the need to announce this in a work capacity. Just do your job and answer my email about when my invoice is getting paid please :-)

It's utterly ridiculous, and eye-rollingly 'look at me'.

If it were genuinely necessary, people called Chris, Sam, Alex, Hilary, Leslie, Toni, Jordan, etc. would have been doing it for decades. Plus people with Sikh names, most of which are unisex.

I very much doubt Big Daddy had 'Shirley Crabtree (he/him)' on his tax documents and driving licence.

I didn’t really understand it, when someone is called ‘Jenny’ or ‘Sarah’ I would call them her but I did find it helpful recently with a name I didn’t recognise as male or female.

We had a transgender person at work and after the op we all got an email (hundreds of people) letting us know that ‘Bob’ would be returning as ‘Barbara’ and to address her as such, and we did - that was the end of it. No big deal and she doesn’t put her pronouns anywhere.