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Original poster

What happens to children who gender transition in single sex schools?

61 replies

Mewmin · 22/04/2021 10:45

I was on the thread on BBC pronouns and started wondering about this. Where I live most secondary schools are single sex. They have strict uniform requirements i.e. the girls have to wear skirts, no trousers allowed.

What would happen if e.g. a girl transitioned? Surely she wouldn't be allowed to move to the boys' school as her sex hasn't changed, but would she be expected to continue living as a boy in a girls' school? Would she be expected to use the girls' toilets and wear skirts?

Same for boys. If a boy transitioned would they be allowed into a girls' school and allowed to wear skirts and use the female toilets, for example?

OP posts:
Seeline · 22/04/2021 10:54

There was a pupil at my DDs girls school who changed their name to a traditionally make name and started using male pronouns which the school accepted. They also managed to get the Head to agree to them wearing trousers when the uniform only included skirts. The other pupils were very supportive.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 10:57

Wow, that must be a strange experience being the only boy in a girls' school. I suspect it would be even harder to present as a girl in a boys' school.

OP posts:
ittakes2 · 22/04/2021 10:58

I think it depends on the school. Muslim girls often want to wear trousers so I would be surprised at any school insisting its students had to wear a dress.
My daughter's school will only call the legal name of people on the register and this did cause an issue for a girl who had transitioned in the school. I found it annoying as well as we have never called my daughter her legal name - culturally she has a name we have used since she was born. I might have made a different choice had I have realised schools in the UK insist children use their legal name for school.

paralysedbyinertia · 22/04/2021 11:00

My dd knows someone who goes to a boys school but identifies as a girl. They are not fully transitioned yet, though - they still present as a boy in school, but as a girl out of school. I'm not sure what would happen if they wanted to present as a girl in school as well, or whether this has been discussed with the school.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 11:01

That's unusual. Most schools ask for legal name and preferred name when you register. Is it a private school?

OP posts:
SteveArnottsCodeine · 22/04/2021 11:04

My understanding (as a teacher, we had some training on this a few years ago) is that legally they are entitled to stay and be out as their new gender identity. Likewise they are legally able to move to a school for children of their new gender identity if they want to.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 11:30

So a (male) transgender girl is legally allowed to move to a girls' school?

Surely they wouldn't be allowed to get changed for PE or use the girls' toilets though as those are single sex protected spaces under the Equality Act?

OP posts:
paralysedbyinertia · 22/04/2021 11:34

It's a tricky one, because we have historically referred to boys' schools/girls' schools as "single sex" schools. If pupils are now able to go to a school for pupils of the opposite sex due to their gender identity, then that description is no longer accurate. At the same time, they can't be described as "single gender" schools either, because it seems that trans pupils are entitled to remain in their original setting. So what should we call those schools, I wonder?

Perhaps this will ultimately result in schools doing away with sex/gender segregation altogether, because it is just too messy?

FelicityPike · 22/04/2021 11:43

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender.
Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 11:45

I can't imagine that happening in my area, it is too entrenched in the system.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 11:47

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to move. But what happens to areas protected by single sex legislation like toilets and changing rooms? They would have to build/allocate a separate area for transgirls.

OP posts:
sanluca · 22/04/2021 11:48

I would say it is the end of single sex schools. Just like single sex facilities, services and sports. Basically everything from toilets to schools to communal changing rooms to girl guides to prisons to hospital wards will be mixed sex.

Especially as there are no criteria definable for gender, no stereotypes, no clothes, no behaviour, no medical changes or diagnosis, possible and required to 'change gender' there will be no way to write policies or laws surrounding this. It will be easier to say sexism no longer exists, as sex will no longer be defined in law either.

Enb76 · 22/04/2021 11:53

It's single sex so as the child is still biologically the same sex then I wouldn't have thought there was an issue apart from external things like clothing etc... Changing in a different space would probably not be onerous either, we had some cubicles at school so that those who were body conscious could have privacy. Lots of teen girls and boys are body conscious and could do with some privacy.

Where I think the problem would be is a child entering a school that is at odds with their biological sex, at least in terms of changing rooms and sport.

MeadowHay · 22/04/2021 11:54

I don't know, but I just want to comment that in my city there are a number of girls schools where the uniform prior to sixth form is strictly skirts only, no trousers allowed. There is a big Muslim community in my city and a notable minority of Muslim pupils at all of these schools, they are not allowed to wear trousers. So like you I do wonder what would happen. I cant see how it would be fair or equitable to allow a uniform exemption on the basis of someone's gender identity (my understanding is that this is not a legally protected characteristic for a child given they won't have a GRC?) but not on the grounds of someone's religious beliefs, which is a legally protected characteristic.

PineappleCakes · 22/04/2021 12:00

Self-id is not law in the UK and you cannot acquire a GRC until you are over 18 years old.

So legally for almost all school-age pupils, they are the sex they are born and although social transitioning happens, they cannot change to opposite-sex schools I believe.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 12:02

It's single sex so as the child is still biologically the same sex then I wouldn't have thought there was an issue apart from external things like clothing etc...

The main issue I'm thinking of is for the trans person to be continually confronted by being the odd one out and their sex being psychologically reinforced to them all day.

If misgendering someone (even in their absence by using the wrong pronoun) is so damaging to a trans person then surely seeing yourself as a boy but going to a girls' school and for all intents and purposes being treated as a girl in a world of girls (other than your changed name and pronouns) would be massively damaging. But I can't imagine the local boys' school taking in a transgirl. Just think of the safeguarding issues of being the only teen female surrounded by hundreds of teen boys all day long. It boggled my mind.

OP posts:
sanluca · 22/04/2021 12:11

I would say that for a child struggling with their gender identity would be better off not attending a school meant for the opposite sex or for their own sex. Mixed sex would be better, so that they can explore where they feel they fit in.

But even there they will always be confronted with their sex when it comes to single sex facilities and sports. But that is the way the world works, male is not female and vice versa.

Enb76 · 22/04/2021 12:32

The main issue I'm thinking of is for the trans person to be continually confronted by being the odd one out and their sex being psychologically reinforced to them all day.

I'm not sure that's the massive issue it is made out to be. Certainly there is a narrative pushed that that's the case but in the case of the one 12 year I know, they just want to be comfortable in their own skin and are not interested in policing what others think of them and their friends tend to be very supportive. I think it is frankly horrendously difficult for girls going through puberty at the moment. I am pretty sure that she will end up not being trans but who knows.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 12:43

I suspect that girls would, on the whole, be supportive of their friends but not sure how teen boys would react if one of their group wanted to present as a girl. I imagine that would be much more difficult somehow.

OP posts:
Enb76 · 22/04/2021 12:46

not sure how teen boys would react if one of their group wanted to present as a girl

I think boys are much more rigid in their stereotyping than girls as a whole and also think that it would not be a wholly generous reaction, immediate friends aside.

Riapia · 22/04/2021 13:50

@Mewmin

Wow, that must be a strange experience being the only boy in a girls' school. I suspect it would be even harder to present as a girl in a boys' school.
She is not nor ever will be a boy.
H1978 · 22/04/2021 14:25

My dds’ both go to a single sex school and there are a few girls who are gender transitioning but they use their name given at birth but are referred to as ‘they’.

Original poster
Mewmin · 22/04/2021 15:46

Yes you're right, I should have said being the only person who presents or identifies as a boy.

OP posts:
Keepingitreal14 · 22/04/2021 15:53

Also opens up the subject of sports, junior football / rugby etc only allow mixed teams to a certain again usually around 12/13 years old. Can a transgender boy play for the girls team and vice versa?

YoniAndGuy · 22/04/2021 17:35

@FelicityPike

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender. Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.
Why? They've changed gender, that's fine. They haven't changed sex. It's a single-sex school, not a single-gender school-? Don't get the logic there!