Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

What happens to children who gender transition in single sex schools?

61 replies

Mewmin · 22/04/2021 10:45

I was on the thread on BBC pronouns and started wondering about this. Where I live most secondary schools are single sex. They have strict uniform requirements i.e. the girls have to wear skirts, no trousers allowed.

What would happen if e.g. a girl transitioned? Surely she wouldn't be allowed to move to the boys' school as her sex hasn't changed, but would she be expected to continue living as a boy in a girls' school? Would she be expected to use the girls' toilets and wear skirts?

Same for boys. If a boy transitioned would they be allowed into a girls' school and allowed to wear skirts and use the female toilets, for example?

OP posts:
SallySycamore · 22/04/2021 18:01

A family member teaches at a single sex school, and I've just enquired. They will use different names and pronouns, but everybody still wears skirts (Muslim girls wear long skirts). They can use the disabled or departmental loos (self-contained) rather than go to the big cloakrooms but apparently lots of them don't bother.

The teachers also are told not to worry if they refer to the class as "girls", it won't be taken as a complaint (unless there's evidence it's being done maliciously I suppose), but maybe to use "everybody" instead if they know somebody in the class is non-gender conforming and doesn't like to be referred to as a girl. Although from what my relative says, if they're in a group they don't seem to be that fussed, it's more being seen individually as a girl if that makes sense.

It's maybe slightly different, because it's one of the only single sex schools in the area, so it's an active choice to go there, rather than going by default.

(I'd also agree that it's probably much easier at a girls' school than a boys'.)

titchy · 22/04/2021 18:13

Likewise they are legally able to move to a school for children of their new gender identity if they want to.

I'm fairly sure that's not true . Schools
In the ok are singled sex, not single gender. Sex has a very specific meaning in the uk.

titchy · 22/04/2021 18:14

@FelicityPike

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender. Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.
Except children cannot fully transition as they cannot get GRCs.
titchy · 22/04/2021 18:16

@Mewmin

So a (male) transgender girl is legally allowed to move to a girls' school?

Surely they wouldn't be allowed to get changed for PE or use the girls' toilets though as those are single sex protected spaces under the Equality Act?

Unfortunately there does appear to have been reports of some schools allowing students access to the changing rooms of their gender identity rather than their sex.
ListeningQuietly · 22/04/2021 18:17

Nobody ever changes their sex.
That is coded into every cell at the point of conception
and stays the same until death.

Despite what certain activists say, self-ID does not exist in the UK.
And certainly does not apply to under 18's

JMAngel1 · 22/04/2021 18:34

When did life get so bloody complicated.

ListeningQuietly · 22/04/2021 18:37

@JMAngel1

When did life get so bloody complicated.
When the NHS and DFe and other people who should know better forgot that biology is a science not a feeling.
Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/04/2021 18:37

Clue is in the name. Single SEX school.
'Gender' or 'gender identity' are irrelevant.

Adults should stop reinforcing the nonsense that kids can change or choose their sex. Gender is not sex.

Schools should all be enforcing the legal single sex exemptions as outlined in the equality act. Our girls need protecting more than ever in this porn soaked rape culture.

Sex should always be priority over gender identity if needs clash. If a male pupil feels uncomfortable in the boys changing room, the solution should never be to make 30 female pupils uncomfortable by not only forcing them to share their space, but then to tell them their own safety, privacy and dignity are second to a male's feelings and that their boundaries are bigoted.

ListeningQuietly · 22/04/2021 18:38

If a male pupil feels uncomfortable in the boys changing room, the solution should never be to make 30 female pupils uncomfortable
THIS

Wigmic · 22/04/2021 20:25

I went to an all girls school and had a boy in my year transition in Year 9/10. He used the toilets to change for PE and used the same toilets as us. Each year had their own set of toilets so there was no chance any unknowing Year 7s would suddenly find a boy in the loos.

Their name remained their birth name on the register but teachers and students all used their chosen name. If I remember correctly, his name was changed in year 11 on the school system.

I really didn’t feel like a big massive deal at the time to any of us. He was our friend and everyone was supportive and just got on with it .

Bul21ia · 22/04/2021 20:45

I didn’t know there were schools that had such strict rules that girls have to wear skirts Shock

What’s the reason behind it? What is that teaching females?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/04/2021 20:59

@Wigmic

I went to an all girls school and had a boy in my year transition in Year 9/10. He used the toilets to change for PE and used the same toilets as us. Each year had their own set of toilets so there was no chance any unknowing Year 7s would suddenly find a boy in the loos.

Their name remained their birth name on the register but teachers and students all used their chosen name. If I remember correctly, his name was changed in year 11 on the school system.

I really didn’t feel like a big massive deal at the time to any of us. He was our friend and everyone was supportive and just got on with it .

I assume you mean a female pupil chose to identify as a boy with you saying it was a single sex school so it changes nothing. No year 7 pupil would find a male in the toilets because all pupils are female.
Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/04/2021 21:01

What’s the reason behind it?

Sexism. Outdated sex role stereotypes. Etc etc

00100001 · 22/04/2021 21:02

@Mewmin

So a (male) transgender girl is legally allowed to move to a girls' school?

Surely they wouldn't be allowed to get changed for PE or use the girls' toilets though as those are single sex protected spaces under the Equality Act?

They wouldn't be able to attend a single sex school of the opposite sex..

I think?

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 22/04/2021 21:08

@FelicityPike

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender. Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.
But schools are single sex not single gender.
00100001 · 22/04/2021 21:19

@FelicityPike

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender. Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.
But the male child trying to aess a female school. will potentially also cause other parents to withdraw their child from the school, causing financial problems.

Also, the school will just refuse their application... they wouldn't even need to state the reason as that of sex.

The safeguarding policies and procedures they'd have to put in place would be absolutely ridiculous.

00100001 · 22/04/2021 21:20

@Wigmic

I went to an all girls school and had a boy in my year transition in Year 9/10. He used the toilets to change for PE and used the same toilets as us. Each year had their own set of toilets so there was no chance any unknowing Year 7s would suddenly find a boy in the loos.

Their name remained their birth name on the register but teachers and students all used their chosen name. If I remember correctly, his name was changed in year 11 on the school system.

I really didn’t feel like a big massive deal at the time to any of us. He was our friend and everyone was supportive and just got on with it .

But they weren't actually make, we're they?

They were female that dressed like a boy etc

Hardly the same thing...

ListeningQuietly · 22/04/2021 21:25

wigmic
Your school broke the law.
SEX is the legal determinant
and nobody can change their SEX (because it is determined in every cell of the body.

An Adult may apply for a GRC Gender Recognition Certificate but they take two years to get
so nobody under 20 can have one.

Schools have to obey the Equality Act - Sex not Gender

follygirl · 22/04/2021 22:26

At my dd's single sex school a pupil who had previously identified as female, wanted to be identified as male and he was allowed to stay at the school. I'm proud of the fact that the school accept their pupils in this way. There is a strong LBTQ community as well.

AutumnBrooke · 22/04/2021 22:29

What do you mean he was "allowed to stay at the school". What possible legal reason would the school have for making him leave?

Trixie78 · 22/04/2021 22:36

@FelicityPike

I’m going to get SLAUGHTERED I just know I am but once they’ve transitioned then they’re they’re chosen gender. Of course a trans girl should be allowed to move to an all girls school if she wants to and vice versa.
They may be their chosen GENDER but their SEX hasn't changed so it wouldn't be appropriate for a trans girl to attend an all girls school as these schools are separated by sex not gender.
CatrinVennastin · 22/04/2021 22:49

My DD’s are at stat girls secondary and there are now several girls who identify as boys. The teachers use their preferred male names apparently. In one case the parents do not know that their daughter is transgender.

The thing that gets forgotten in all this is that girls from strict religious backgrounds could end up being denied an education if we allow boys to attend an all girls school.

ViolaValentina · 22/04/2021 22:58

At our local single sex girls school they're pretty accommodating. All pupils can choose to wear trousers or skirt. The accessible toilets are available for trans students to use, and they have made separate changing facilities available. They use preferred names and pronouns. Staff have been asked not to refer to any class as 'girls' or 'ladies', they must say 'everyone'.

Remaker · 22/04/2021 23:10

My DD goes to an all girls school. There is at least one student who now identifies as male. It’s a very multicultural school and they already had trousers as an option for the Muslim students, so that part of it is easy. The school will change pronouns for anyone who requests it and they can use a preferred name (my DD is known by her nickname). Apparently there is a dedicated toilet they can use but DD said the student often just uses the regular bathrooms. With girls bathrooms being all cubicles I can’t see it’s much of an issue.

There was a case here in Australia a few years ago when a student at an all boys state school transitioned and changed their name etc. They wanted to stay at the boys school but were arguing for a different uniform. I think the school would have been much happier if they’d left and gone to a coed school because it was a bit of a minefield having one girl in a boys’ school and they were worried about safeguarding etc. But they stayed on and finished their schooling there. The story has a very sad ending because after leaving school and going to uni, having a very successful student life working on the student newspaper, writing opinion pieces, big circle of friends etc they suicided in their early 20s.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/04/2021 23:20

@follygirl

At my dd's single sex school a pupil who had previously identified as female, wanted to be identified as male and he was allowed to stay at the school. I'm proud of the fact that the school accept their pupils in this way. There is a strong LBTQ community as well.
Your post is confusing. What was the child's sex? You mean a female child who wanted to be known as a boy? So a female pupil was allowed to stay in their single sex school? Why on earth wouldn't they be? Hmm