How do you discuss secondary education choices with other parents without pissing people off?

[KindergartenKop]

My DC is in year 4 and obviously we are starting to consider secondary schools, as are the parents of DCs friends. There are lots of choices around here, a couple of comprehensives (70% ish of kids tend to go to one of these), a few grammar schools and a few private schools.

I personally don't want a discussion about where I want DC to go, it's nobody else's business, but other parents are starting to discuss it. What do I say if someone brings it up? If I'm not planning on sending DC to the comprehensive, I feel like I should say why, but I don't know how to approach this without criticising it. Please help with this basic conversational skill!

The thing is, not all choices are available to everyone. Some kids aren’t academic enough for a grammar, some people won’t have the money to consider private. For some people their only option might be the ‘undesirable’ comp everyone else is doing their best to avoid. Best not to go there.

I know what you mean. Our DS1 has gone to private secondary, all but one of his friends are going to local school which his primary was one of the feeder schools for. I did feel a bit like I had to justify our decision, as some people took it that we didn't think the local school was good enough. I just went with 'the school we've chosen is a better fit for him'.

It’s only offensive when the person you are talking to goes on to slag off your chosen school that’s what makes someone a dick not trying for the Grammar school.

Oh my god, we have this exact thing at the moment. Some people are quite scathing about the school we are planning to send ours to, but everyone I know with kids there really like it, I don't get what the problem is? And then there are issues with some people not being able to afford private, even though they would love to (not us!) and other people's nearest schools not being great (primary has a large catchment area).

Now, if it comes up, I just say 'this is what we are doing with x' and leave it there! It doesn't really matter what others do anyway does it?

I asked 100s of questions and discussed it with any willing participant when mine were around that age in a grammar area. I didn’t ‘judge’ I was trying to learn about the schools so I could work out which ones would be best for my kids. I didn’t care what biases there were I just wanted as much info as possible. I don’t see your beef? Why is it a privacy thing? Surely everyone is trying to do the same thing??

Maybe I’m wrong, usually am! But you sound a bit of a snob?

'Oh, we're very open minded. Looking at all options'.

Op it's very tricky but to be honest I'd just be honest.
I really believe in sharing information not closing it down. It's by sheer chance from a random conversation that I discovered my dc were actually in catchment for school I liked but never considered.. It was only due to brief but open and Frank conversation that now my dc whole life path will be changed and hopefully for the better.

Unfortunately and fortunately schools around us are good... But just not that good... There are grammar but not enough to impact our comps.
There are independents too.
Each type of school has a vital function for each type of dc. For mine I have a mix so one dc who is really bright. I wouldn't put into the comp.. I'd want the grammar. Another has mild sen.. Again the comps can't accommodate sen and had a bad rep so I'd want that dc to try the smaller independent school.
Comps are OK for middling dc mostly and some can cater to the other ends of the spectrum.. But due to their sheer size it's hard for them to offer everything to everyone...

We need more types of school not less and personally I'm very happy to admit that I myself would have never accessed a grammar due to poor maths..

One dc needs grammar the other needs more help but has different abilities and skills!!

In your experience, do the kids discuss it anyway? I'm sure the mums digging for tutoring goss could just ask little Johnny.

@Fembot123

It’s only offensive when the person you are talking to goes on to slag off your chosen school that’s what makes someone a dick not trying for the Grammar school.

Certainly it’s a bad idea to criticise any school, but I’ve never heard anyone do that. I’ve heard plenty of people slag someone off for choosing to go the grammar or private route. They see it as a criticism of their own choice even though that person hasn’t actually said anything. Personally I think it’s better all round just not to go there.

The other thing I found is that most people had already decided by year 5 or before and every conversation justified that choice..
Eg.. How is x getting on mine will go there does she like it.. It's great to have x y and z isn't it.. Sort of talking at you rather than actually wanting an honest appraisal. I do want honest appraisals other wise how can we know?

I'd just say, 'No idea, yet. We're looking around.'

*re tutoring my youngest has one and its best thing ever done.. It's for regular school work and not for 11+ but it's hugely boosted her confidence, helps her keep up just about in school and the school cannot offer such a personal bespoke service as a personal tutor who knows her so well and can tweak work.. To her and bring her on.
Infact without it I don't know where we would be quite frankly so it irks me to hear tutors being spoken of like that.
Yes some dc are worked too too hard for the 11+ but many are not and have an hour a week!

Some don't get any.... Some younger dc like mine desperately need extra help that state school just can't give.

@twilightcafe

Where I live, there are a couple of state schools that everyone wants, two crap ones, £££ private, and grammar schools 20 miles away.

In my experience, parents who are asking that before Year 4 (after that is a bit late, in my opinion) want to pump you for info, while holding their cards close to their chests.

I was always deliberately vague, and said something like 'we put the local schools in order of preference'.

If pressed, I said that my policy was that other families' educational plans were none of my business, and my plans were none of theirs. especially if there were nosey parkers who never usually gave me the time of day

Now that my eldest is at our first choice secondary school, and it's 99per cent certain that DD will follow, now I will sing like a canary if anyone asks my opinion about schools

The year my eldest applied was a high birth year, so the competition to get a place was fierce. As it turned out, he got the last place that year.

No way was I going to share information with other people especially if they couldn't be arsed to work out the admissions info for themselves

Fem bot, wouldn't you want to know if that school had massive discipline issue or major bullying or drugs they could not control?

I would!

You’re lucky, I’ve heard loads of it plus parents talking about it in front of their kids who pass it on. I chose not to get mine tutored to do the eleven plus as my local secondary is walking distance and great but I have no issues with people who do or think their choices reflect on mine, unless they tell me they do 😂

@SprungisSpringYaY

Fem bot, wouldn't you want to know if that school had massive discipline issue or major bullying or drugs they could not control?

I would!

I don’t recall mentioning any of that although it begs the question if your kids don’t go then how do you know? I was referring to snobbish comments e.g Oh they’re going there?? With accompanying sad face or just slagging off other schools in general before you know what school someone else I’d choosing. If you are happy with your choice for your child then that should be enough.

Also if you ask someone which school they are thinking of and it’s not one you’d personally choose that is NOT them asking for your opinion 😄

@Mugginyouleftrightandcentre

Oh my god, we have this exact thing at the moment. Some people are quite scathing about the school we are planning to send ours to, but everyone I know with kids there really like it, I don't get what the problem is? And then there are issues with some people not being able to afford private, even though they would love to (not us!) and other people's nearest schools not being great (primary has a large catchment area).

Now, if it comes up, I just say 'this is what we are doing with x' and leave it there! It doesn't really matter what others do anyway does it?

Just ignore them, it’s pretty sad they should be hung up on it 🤷‍♀️ Seems like for some it’s not enough to get their child into the school they wanted everyone else has to feel jealous and embarrassed by their own just as valid choice. Mine are in Year 9&7 and doing amazingly well in the local comp.

@Lindy2

Why does it need to be so secretive?

Everyone is making choices from the same options so any choice you make is hardly going to be a massive surprise is it?

Just chat like normal people.

I'm glad there's at least one other person on here who agree with me the secrecy is just so unusual!

If someone doesn't like your choice they are entitled to that as much as you are entitled not to like others choices.

Round here my friends and I have kids in 7 different secondary schools. Some are better than others and some known to be shit. All the kids have done well though.

And 5 out of the 15 kids actually moved secondaries between year 8-10 because its wasn't the right place for them.
And 3 of those ended up in schools 3 had left and had totally different experiences.

I have a y5 and it's on my mind as he has SENs and needs quite a particular environment. No grammars.
A couple of parents are/ have been teachers at the nearby comp. It's OK and I wouldn't rule out DS2 going, but it's not the ideal school for DS1's needs.
I have talked about it more with one parent whose older child is broadly similar to DS1, but it's not a general topic on the playground. About 3/5s will go to the comp and 2/5s elsewhere.

It's frustrating this year as there's not been the opportunuty to view schools ahead of a tight turnaround next autumn on sending off the application. We also have an EHCP application in the pipeline.

I think it’s really hard when you didn’t grow up in the area and it’s your first child going to secondary school as open days can seem a bit staged, and if you’re not from an education background it can be difficult to know what to look for and ask.

We have 4 local comps (one catholic, one c of e and 2 normal comps) plus one private school. We are not in a grammar school area which I was sad about until I read about all of the lengths parents go to to secure places!

All of the comps are pretty good, with similar results and a mix of children from different backgrounds, socially, economically etc.

We ended up going for our local c of e comp, which has been generally very good and dd is in line to get very good grades this year. Dd chose this school herself and it has been easier as she can walk there herself.

I did have some reservations beforehand (mainly around the types of kids there and behaviour etc) so it was interesting to read your thread @KindergartenKop

I found it really weird when discussing schools when looking round that many parents were really cagey! I wanted to discuss my fears but didn’t really find anyone prepared to enter into any discussions.

I was also really interested to know why a few friends who were heavily involved with the c of e church that the school is attached to opted to send their kids to the local catholic school instead. Obviously I couldn’t ask why, and they tended to allude to it being a better fit or something non commital like that!

Anyway, it worked ok for us, especially as dd tended to be in the top sets with children similar to herself, and has made some great friends.

I always find it surprising how many parents don’t take their child’s opinion in to consideration at all when making the choice too.

@SprungisSpringYaY

Fem bot, wouldn't you want to know if that school had massive discipline issue or major bullying or drugs they could not control?

I would!

I’d be very suspicious of any school who said they didn’t have any bullying. I think with kids of secondary school age especially years 7-9 it happens everywhere from local comp to private/independent.

From my experience, I tend to find it is parents who move their kids between different schools as they’ve had problems in each who tend to spread the “bullying is out of control” rumours, which I take with a pinch of salt.

@SprungisSpringYaY

“Op it's very tricky but to be honest I'd just be honest.
I really believe in sharing information not closing it down. It's by sheer chance from a random conversation that I discovered my dc were actually in catchment for school I liked but never considered.. It was only due to brief but open and Frank conversation that now my dc whole life path will be changed and hopefully for the better.

Unfortunately and fortunately schools around us are good... But just not that good... There are grammar but not enough to impact our comps.”

I agree with you totally about being honest.

I’m genuinely interested in what you say about the choice you made changing your dcs whole life? Do you really think this is the case? Or if they’re very able, will they not get good grades in any decent school?

Obviously I can understand the sen provision argument, and why certain schools may be a better fit for different types of kids, but maybe I didn’t consider things deeply enough?

For example, my eldest dd who is bright, confident and conscientious and a general “all rounder” (no sen) has thrived at the local comp and is predicted all 8/9 in Should I have considered the local private school instead ? Her grades couldn’t really be improved, but would it have offered anything else on top?

Sometimes I feel like I’m missing out on something that everyone else knows but is unspoken/ glossed over. Surely it’s just a stepping stone to the next level, which for us will be 6th form college.