Moving to Holland

[Hamhockandmash]

Don’t really know where to put this!
Can anyone tell me about life in Holland? DH has been offered a job. We have a DS under 1 too.

Anyone here from Holland? Anyone lived there?

Thanks

Another point wrt ethnicity.
I have the impression, that while Hollanf prides itself on its tolerance, in relaity people tend ot live alongside each other, rather than that the community becomes diverse.
So the Turkish community lives alongside the white community etc, but that they live quite disconnected lives and that there is actaully quite poor integration across the communities. There was a word for this which I can't remember something like pillars or columns. Meaning that people tend to stick within their own column?

And that now may be outdated?

@drspouse

I would say that the SEN system is pretty different to UK, much less inclusive, most children are not in mainstream. My impression is though that the special schools are good. But that is based on a couple of examples and may be wrong.

I'm aware at least of the system of SEN provision as it was (not sure if this continues) which is that a child has a "backpack" of funding which the parents choose how to spend.
As parents usually prefer specialist schools (despite the overall outcomes being worse for children with SEN in specialist schools) they tend to choose to spend their money on that; this also means parents are open to really "out there" interventions that would never get NHS or Education funding in the UK because they are not evidence based.
So on the face of it that's a good thing but in practice it can have unintended consequences.

@apalledandshocked I can't actually find anything telling me the ethnicity of the town it would be, but our DD is such an unusual ethnicity even here.

DH isn't a PTA/charity work type - he likes his hobbies and sharing them with the DCs, and doing things with the DCs that they like so while he will no doubt have a happy and productive retirement here (that's why he'd be the SAHD, he's soon to retire) he wouldn't make any friends in the Netherlands I don't think so it would have to be a big sell on other grounds (he'd like flat places to cycle, art galleries, travel to neighbouring countries for example).

That explains a lot. My neice was in a special school. I was a bit shocked that she went in a taxi 1+ hours to a special school. In UK she would have been mainstream. She had a physical disability which meant she got veyr tired and wasn't able to do a full day, needed physio regularly. I just couldn't see how adding 2+ hours of taxi was better than working with their lovely local village school, and having her come home to sleep in the middle of the day instead of sleeping at school. Academically she was fine.

It surprised me a lot. But I guess that is how they chose to spend it.

I moved to NL nearly 8 years ago, with a Dutch husband a toddler, baby andno Dutch language. After 5 years as a SAHM, I got a FT job in English (some larger local companies have English as their business language. ) I can speak Dutch now and also have a Dutch passport.

You should learn Dutch. I didn't for the first few years and, whilst nearly all Dutch people have excellent English, you connect much better if you speak Dutch. The schools are great, my kids have thrived here. It's a great, outdoor healthy lifestyle. I live in Zuid Holland, so it may be different out east or elsewhere, but the pp who posted about Haarlem, that's such a lovely town and a great place to live.

Honestly, take the plunge, it's a very very good choice.

steppemum the pillar system refers more to different Christian groups living alongside each other and having separate broadcast organisations to which they belong (which all have broadcast time on national television) and separate schools (religious schools in the Netherlands are very religious, avoid if that isn't your thing. The pillar system is mostly but not completely defunct.

Integration of immigrants absolutely is an issue, but partly that is because the Dutch don't really integrate with each other. They tend to live alongside each other, avoiding conflicts for the most part, keeping their heads down (doe maar gewoon, dan doe je al gek genoeg).

At least the government tends towards the secular, and because of proportional representation there isn't this constant swing of one side dismantling what the previous government has done ad infinitum. In the last government, the Christen Unie had a place in the coalition - and they are very, very, very fundamentalist, opposed to marriage equality, abortion and assisted dying. Nevertheless none of those laws were tampered with.

I don't know enough about the education system these days to comment - my DDs have been through the UK system, and my own education was a loooooong time ago.

I live in the south and can confirm everything said here. I would strongly recommend expat groups as they can be a life saver for integrating and making friends. I found the Dutch to be very difficult to really make friends with. I have lots of acquaintances but very few real friends.

I found getting a job to be difficult without Dutch/some knowledge of Dutch but you need to try and build a network.

@Hamhockandmash If you want an honest Pros and Cons list of life in NL as an expat, I am so happy to help you out. Please feel free to PM me. As I said before, I was there nearly nine years. Some things were great. Some not so much. X

Thank you all for your lovely replies, some really useful information here, just going through it all now!

Have a read of the book ' Why The Dutch Are Different.' It is on kindle.

Open living-room curtains at night because it's cosy.

Agreements made outside of meetings, and formalised in meetings, rather than using the meeting for the discussions.

Never eat more than one biscuit on a plate even if they offer a second

I loved living there apart from the koffiemelk life got better when I could ask for cows milk in my coffee instead!

RandomMess koffiemelk is disgusting stuff, isn't it? Mind you, I take my coffee black, always have.

The other love it killed for me is cinnamon- overloaded with coffee with Koffiemelk & cinnamon biscuits on a weeks orientation residential 🤮

Dd is there au pairing atm, but not for a Dutch family. She loves it, lots of au pairs, but agrees with the bluntness of the Dutch. Also toiletries very expensive (important when you’re 22), learnt to love cycling and can’t wait till everyone treats parks like an extension of their house again.

another good book, may be a bit dated now, but I expect they do an updated one is
Culture Shock Netherlands! by Hunt Janin

this is a great series of books actually, for anyone moving overseas very practical explanation of how things are and why.

(I have never read the UK one, would be interesting to see!)

One other thing that no-one has mentioned so far. Hairdressers, by and large, are terrible, just terrible. Apologies to anyone who is a Dutch hairdresser but it is very hard to find a good one. On the other hand if anyone here wants to contradict me because they live in the Netherlands and their hairdresser does a fantastic job of cutting and dying their hair then please please please tell me where and who they are!!!

@Helspopje

Never eat more than one biscuit on a plate even if they offer a second

Why? Is it seen as unbearably greedy?