Batley Grammar School

[Brahumbug]

I am outraged that a howling mob of thugs has been allowed to gather at Batley Grammar School to threaten a teacher and demand his sacking. The headmaster has issued a groveling, spineless apology. The threats have been condemned by such as the National Secular Society. The cause if this nonsense? During a lesson on blasphemy, its self the ultimate victimless crime, the teacher showed cartoons of Muhammad. Free soeech is once agsin under attack by religious groups claiming special privileges for their beliefs, absolutely disgusting.

It's been said before, we all need to adhere to the laws and rules of this society. We cannot have a two tier society just for cultural sensitivity reasons.

[quote NEVERQUIT3331]@H1978 I do feel sorry for you guys. I have seen first hand of the racism and attacks that Muslims go through. They range from: women getting their hijabs ripped off, spat at, being asked why the attacker/bomber behaved like this etc....

The teacher should not be sacked rather he needs more awareness of the religion. If this teacher was RE teacher surely he should have thought of what religions think of pictures of figures? We see some people here saying 'well Christian figures were also drawn.' Well that is not a fair comparison. In Christian households, a lot of them have pictures, paintings of Jesus or the Virgin Mary and other figures. Similarly, if they used pictures to mock Christianity that is not also okay. We need to learn to be respectful of one another of all religions.[/quote]
Thank you for your support.
The scenes at the school is sad and for those who truly know their religion know that the Prophet never condoned violence of any kind. There are numerous stories where he was tortured but he never reacted in an aggressive way. It’s ironic that the man these people are defending was the most peaceful man to have lived.

Well what stands out for me is that this school will have a teacher recruitment problem in the future, noone wants to work in a place that will shove you under the bus.

@SprungisSpringYaY

I can't imagine a child actually feeling distressed at such a thing.

To actually get to that mental state as a child that they would be deeply upset?

If you tell a child often enough they are distressed then they will be

NEVERQUIT3331 you seem to assume Muslims are never white....? As per my earlier comment, to many people also assume that fascists can't be non-white.

To answer your question with another, do Muslims (as a 'community') stand up for other groups? Do they regularly call out sexism, disability discrimination etc? You speak of the 'white' community as being a homogenous one when it really isn't. Some white people are racist. Some aren't. Some South Asian people are racist. Some aren't. Some Muslims are extremist. Some aren't. Some Christians are extremist. Some aren't.

The fallout from this case gets worse.
The head of an Islamic charity which has in the past donated IT equipment to the school (on account of its Muslim studentship no doubt) has said it will no longer work with the school unless the teacher is dismissed. The entitlement and bullying knows no bounds.

@winewolfhowls

Well what stands out for me is that this school will have a teacher recruitment problem in the future, noone wants to work in a place that will shove you under the bus.

This will be so frightening for the staff. I hope that they are being protected. I wouldn’t think it’s a a very happy workplace at the moment.

This makes me so angry. All religions are artificial. Whatever inspired them, they are the words of men.

In what way is an image of Mohammed inherently distressing?! In what way does it make a child unsafe? Why is it blasphemy? (Memories of old testament are rather hazy now, but pretty sure this belief also prevailed in early Christianity, yet we don't see people being beheaded for it nowadays).

Just like Christianity, Islam was written by men as a means of control and imposing their own world view on others. The men outside the school gates today (notable absence of any women, funny that) are an extension of that. I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims in this country are equally as liberal and open minded as most of its practicing Christians so why is this regressive bullying being allowed to happen?

Believe what you like, but this is a secular society and nobody has the right to impose those beliefs on others, or say what can or can't be taught in a secular school. If they feel so strongly about it they should send their children to a faith school!

Whatever any one think of the in and out its a school.
How terryfying for all children at that school and the staff.
If I was a parent there I'd have been on phone asking police to move them on.

They should not have been allowed out by school in close proximity

Interestingly, opinions from RE teachers online seem to be that the teacher should not have shown the image. However, while I wouldn't have done it myself if I was an RE teacher, it has been reported that it wasn't his lesson, so presumably planned as part of the curriculum for his academy chain, he did warn the students prior to the class, PLUS we have seen evidence upthread that the students said he handled it respectfully. So while a bit misguided, hardly a sacking offence.
This whole cancel culture predominant at the moment is just so scary, i mean what message is that giving to our kids. I thought a massive part of all the major religions was about tolerance and forgiveness.

@Elderberry84

This makes me so angry. All religions are artificial. Whatever inspired them, they are the words of men.

In what way is an image of Mohammed inherently distressing?! In what way does it make a child unsafe? Why is it blasphemy? (Memories of old testament are rather hazy now, but pretty sure this belief also prevailed in early Christianity, yet we don't see people being beheaded for it nowadays).

Just like Christianity, Islam was written by men as a means of control and imposing their own world view on others. The men outside the school gates today (notable absence of any women, funny that) are an extension of that. I'm sure the vast majority of Muslims in this country are equally as liberal and open minded as most of its practicing Christians so why is this regressive bullying being allowed to happen?

Believe what you like, but this is a secular society and nobody has the right to impose those beliefs on others, or say what can or can't be taught in a secular school. If they feel so strongly about it they should send their children to a faith school!

This

The school should be shut down by the DfE - it clearly isn’t safe. The headteacher is terrified of the mob at the gates, and who can blame him? It’s not like he can ask the police for help - they’re just as scared.

In another 10 years, this will be happening at schools up and down the country. There isn’t the political will to stop it and the police are too scared. People like @PrincessNutNuts are useful idiots: too enthralled with their own point of view to see what everyone else can - that they are being used to push a political agenda and change the fabric of this country forever.

If the school concedes this, what next? The same parents demanding that the school stop teaching about evolution, same sex relationships etc? Oh, hold on, I've just remembered the protests from a different set of Muslim parents at a school in the Midlands because they objected to the same sex relationship teaching there.
This needs to stop. We must not give in to this extremist bullying.

Can't help wondering what Islam teaches about forgiveness. The school has given a full some apology (not needed in my view but that's by the by) but the parents want the teacher dismissed and nothing less. And a national newspaper is reporting that a local mufti is demanding that the protesting parents have some representatives on the investigation panel....Can't work out whether he's majorly entitled or just utterly naive! This is not how things work.

Frequentflier less respectful of all religions you say? You might have found France a better fit.

Pp talk of the fabric of society changing, you’re not wrong. How is it that society is becoming ever more entitled and precious about how things are perceived eg renaming women as a person who menstruates in sanitary towel ads to avoid offending a vanishing minority of men, but at the same time we need to become less respectful of people’s religious beliefs, and to hell with who is offended.

@Flaxmeadow

Because if he did it in full knowledge of how upset the community he teaches in were likely to be, then my sympathy for him reduces dramatically

The community he teaches in is in West Yorkshire, England, not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan

What's your point?

That this teachers actions have offended and distressed Muslims all over the world?

@WireFan

My teacher friends and my kids say this is not shown in any RS lessons they know about.

It's so controversial I would be astonished to find it was on any curriculum.

To use it completely unnecessarily in a class containing Muslim children is either an act of extreme naïveté or provocation. I'm interested to know which.

[quote PrincessNutNuts]@WireFan

My teacher friends and my kids say this is not shown in any RS lessons they know about.

It's so controversial I would be astonished to find it was on any curriculum.

To use it completely unnecessarily in a class containing Muslim children is either an act of extreme naïveté or provocation. I'm interested to know which. [/quote]
Completely with you on this. There is no reason why you this picture had to be shown in order to explain blasphemy.

I am not Muslim but I don't need to be of that faith to understand why this would be disrespectful or distressing for those pupils. Just because something does not impact you, doesn't mean you turn a blind eye or dismiss the concerns.

To use a hypothetical, imagine if the teacher were giving a history lesson and used racially offensive language to describe how Black/Asian people were referred to in the UK/USA.

Is that acceptable, given that we don't want to censor history? Wouldn't we consider the teacher to have been unwise at the very least, if there were Black/Asian pupils in their class who might be distressed by this?

@WireFan

If the school concedes this, what next? The same parents demanding that the school stop teaching about evolution, same sex relationships etc? Oh, hold on, I've just remembered the protests from a different set of Muslim parents at a school in the Midlands because they objected to the same sex relationship teaching there. This needs to stop. We must not give in to this extremist bullying.

Can't help wondering what Islam teaches about forgiveness. The school has given a full some apology (not needed in my view but that's by the by) but the parents want the teacher dismissed and nothing less. And a national newspaper is reporting that a local mufti is demanding that the protesting parents have some representatives on the investigation panel....Can't work out whether he's majorly entitled or just utterly naive! This is not how things work.

You have given two isolated incidents (including the Yorkshire case).

You seem to be saying that it is always up to the "offended" group (in this case, Muslims) to continually quietly forgive and endure those who offend them.

I would rather we have mutual respect, whereby the RE teacher in question would have enough intelligence to realise that he could have given a lesson on blasphemy without having to show an image which is not just offensive for those of a Muslim faith, but is also so politically loaded and sensitive.

My DC explained to me that they were taught in RE that Muslims can not look at a picture of Mohammed and that teachers would know this especially one who has actually brought in a cartoon.

So I guess they are protesting because they know the teacher knew he should not have shown the cartoon. But apparently the teacher did ask the children that if they would be offended then they could choose to leave the room.

So it's a bit confusing as to what these parents are actually protesting about as the teacher has every right in this country to have shown that cartoon to any children who had chosen to remain in the class.

I absolutely disagree with any kind of protests, they don’t achieve anything but it’s been a very distressing time for all Muslims. I cannot think this teacher, an educated man, would not have understood that his actions would have repercussions. I personally know children who were in this class and it was shocking to them as we are explicitly not allowed to any depiction of the Prophet

Any comment on the death threats towards the teacher? His suspension or the fact that he and his family have had to go in to hiding?

No.

I don’t even understand what this teacher has been suspended for. He hasn’t doesn’t anything illegals and hasn’t hurt anybody. I’m a teacher (although not of RE) and from what was described it sounds like a total normal lesson questioning attitudes around a source material.

TheBlackTower do you think this level of protest and the death threats to the teacher are ok, because in your view he shouldn't have shown the image and people are offended? I'm mindful of the Paris incident in which a teacher was beheaded as a result of similar.

You claim I'm using examples of isolated incidents and in your view overdoing them. I could say the same, and with more justification, about the showing of the image. Parents aren't happy, complain to school (without the intimidating, school closing protests that lead to police protection for the teacher...), the teacher is advised that people have been upset and a constructive way forward is found instead of him being sacked for one issue. But that's far too reasonable an approach for fanatics who want to scream offence, one can only imagine because they perceive that they have some special status OR because they actually want a conflict.

Your final line about the image being unwise because is is not only offensive but politically loaded and sensitive is interesting. Why do you think that is? Are you actually saying our education system should avoid anything politically loaded or sensitive?

The lesson didn't need an image to be shown, in fact the absence on the image is a great teaching point and a starting point for discussion around the topic. Even someone ignorant must know that this is hugely disrespectful, the teacher was foolish and for some reason decided to do what he wanted anyway. If the image had to be shown to illustrate a point that would otherwise hinder children's learning/understanding then could see more of a reason, but that is not the case. Of course death threats etc are not acceptable, but I don't blame people for being upset and angry about it. All easily avoided.

Your final line about the image being unwise because is is not only offensive but politically loaded and sensitive is interesting. Why do you think that is? Are you actually saying our education system should avoid anything politically loaded or sensitive?

But what did showing the image add? Plenty to discuss and learn about the subject without showing one; I think it's more powerful, in fact. If the image hadn't been shown, children in the lesson would not have learnt anything less, so why be purposefully insensitive?

Just to put my two cents in, the lesson taught was not a newly planned lesson. It has been taught in exactly the same way many times, yet now people want to protest about it. Makes absolutely no sense why now.

And please remember that the head teacher is human when you are all having a go at him. He's done what he has been told to do in order to try and defuse the situation and for the safety of the staff.

@WireFan

TheBlackTower do you think this level of protest and the death threats to the teacher are ok, because in your view he shouldn't have shown the image and people are offended? I'm mindful of the Paris incident in which a teacher was beheaded as a result of similar.

You claim I'm using examples of isolated incidents and in your view overdoing them. I could say the same, and with more justification, about the showing of the image. Parents aren't happy, complain to school (without the intimidating, school closing protests that lead to police protection for the teacher...), the teacher is advised that people have been upset and a constructive way forward is found instead of him being sacked for one issue. But that's far too reasonable an approach for fanatics who want to scream offence, one can only imagine because they perceive that they have some special status OR because they actually want a conflict.

Your final line about the image being unwise because is is not only offensive but politically loaded and sensitive is interesting. Why do you think that is? Are you actually saying our education system should avoid anything politically loaded or sensitive?

Well obviously no, hounding the man to make his life a misery and death threats are not acceptable, nor are any violent protests.