Preparing to sell a doer-upper house - advice and opinions please

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

There was a similar-ish thread to this recently, where OP's DH wanted to do major works to their house before selling it, in the hope of getting a much better price and/or secure a sale - very interesting thread, but I didn't want to hijack it.

We have an inherited house to sell and it's in need of quite a bit of TLC before somebody new would want to properly move in, but it's basically sound. The valuer is coming next week, so I shall grill politely enquire of him/her, but although obviously a professional, it's still only one person's opinion - plus they could make suggestions based on timings to suit them in marketing it rather than us in getting a better price.

It will need rewiring, a new kitchen and new bathroom - as per the other thread, we figure that whoever ends up buying it would want to choose their own and maybe get sockets put wherever they want, depending on if they knock down walls or reshape rooms etc.

It has stinky, manky, stained, threadbare old carpet throughout - a different hideous colour/pattern in every room. We plan to take this up and to the tip, to leave bare floorboards as a blank canvas for the buyer.

Otherwise, it has an extremely dated old gas fireplace - a kind of unit/suite with little shelves and everything, with the 'beautiful' old fake plastic log that lights up - which we plan to leave as is, rather than mess about with gas, as the buyer will doubtless want to replace it with their own choice and get a gas-safe engineer to do the removal and instal at the same time.

We're going to get the boiler checked and serviced (it was new in 2017) - with certified proof to present to the buyer, of course.

There are only two things we're not sure about. The walls are painted in garish colours that were never properly applied, so you can see bits of all three from the last redecorations over goodness knows how many decades all at once (with some rough-shaped bits completely missed where an easily-moved piece of furniture wasn't moved before painting) - except for one room which has horribly dated wallpaper. It looks really terrible and off-putting and wouldn't take too much effort or cost to repaint in boring blank-canvas colours, although areas would obviously need to be redone post rewiring, even if the new owners chose to keep the neutral colours we painted it.

The other thing is the decent-sized garden (bungalow on a decent-sized corner plot), which is mainly OK (needs a bit of tidying up), but there is an additional part that would naturally lend itself to being a 5 or 6-car drive (there's a dropped kerb) - obviously a really big selling point - but which currently is covered with tall weeds and doesn't really look at all like a potential drive. Also, there is a dated, very unattractive style wall around the whole property, bits of which are crumbling away and some have already fallen down.

Sorry, that was quite long - but what we're really wondering is whether it's worth repainting the house inside (thinking probably yes) and also whether to get the wall replaced with a simple picket fence or similar and to get the 'drive' part weeded and tarmac laid over it.

We don't live particularly near to it and won't have huge funds to invest in it, but we don't want to lose massively on how much it sells for. Obviously, it's worth a lot less with needing this work, so we aren't expecting top-condition market value; we just don't want to potentially lose out on tens of thousands when we could have avoided that by spending a few thousands initially. Equally, we don't want to waste time and money if what we do won't be wanted/appreciated/make much difference to the buyer. A similar property nearby, but without all the work needed, is up for around £300K.

If anybody is in the trade and/or has any experience of selling or buying doer-uppers - or just general suggestions as to what would or wouldn't put them off if they were buying, I'd really appreciate any input, opinions and suggestions - please be frank (and brutal if need be!). Do you agree with our decisions above, including the things we've so far planned to leave as they are? Any idea how much less each job/all of them together might reduce the value by? What's worth our while doing/not doing - or should we just accept that it will be bought as a doer-upper for a fair price and leave it completely as is for a new owner to do all of the jobs themselves, to their own tastes and specifications?

Lastly, do you think it's likely to be bought by a developer or by the intended new residents/their family - and will that make a difference as to how much we could expect to get. Just don't want anybody to get/feel ripped off - us or the buyers!

Many thanks in advance - for your input and for reading all of that!

Please leave it as a doer-upper. Any work done will look out of place and also make everything else look more shabby (for want of a better word). I’d much rather buy a house as you’ve described than one that has been hastily done up with magnolia walls and grey (why grey?!) carpets throughout. The estate agent should be able to talk up the positives. Good luck.

You may find it gets flattened by a developer. Assuming planning permission can be got, they'd be looking at a few houses on that plot. A similar bungalow near us was turned into 4 houses (2 up, 2 down starter homes).

I don't care about paint colours or wallpaper - doing a quick job just isn't worth it for something I'd have to do over anyway.
You either do the lot or nothing.
Though I would clear the garden and strim the weeds so buyers can see the space clearly.
Don't think it matter price wise whether it's a developer or people intending to live in it, though a developer will want to see a profit and the owner occupier may not care initially. But you can't chose who buys it.
Get three agents over to compare - look if one dominates the sales in the area.

Thanks very much, folks - really constructive comments from all of you.

I hadn't actually thought of improvements making the non-improved parts look even worse by comparison, but it makes sense! It had occurred to me that somebody might want to bulldoze it and develop the land itself - not that it's anywhere bad enough to need knocking down, but it's obviously quite a lot of land for one dwelling if you could make it into three or four. I think flats would be very out of place, but not necessarily a small terrace of starter homes.

It's a bit sad that a home specifically suited to an elderly and/or disabled person/people would then be no longer available, but I suppose that's the way of the world; plus somebody might even want to make it into four maisonettes, in which case there would still be two downstairs, single-storey properties.

My relatives specifically sought out a bungalow (it was a new-build) so that they wouldn't have to move when they got too old to manage stairs easily, although they were healthy and only in their mid-40s at the time; I can't make up my mind whether I find that sad or canny, but it was entirely their decision and none of my business!

If the eventual buyer does get the permission and bulldozes it, obviously anything we do to it will have been 100% a waste of time and money anyway. I suppose the price a buyer is willing to pay might be more if it's somebody wanting their own home and not turn a profit, BUT otoh, if there is the scope for a developer to make four homes from it, it might be worth more to them overall than somebody just looking for a single family home - maybe we should hope for two or three similar developers and a bidding war!!

It still has to go through probate, and the solicitor also advised me to get three valuations for probate purposes; she said to declare the highest for probate value to lessen CGT liability if we end up getting a lot more for it. Obviously I have been/will be totally honest with them so they realise that there isn't any profit in it for them initially, but that, once it's ready to sell in a couple of months, we'll be looking for an agent to sell it, and then they stand to gain if we pick them.

I called three agents on Thursday - left a message with the first on their answerphone and, for the second EA, left a message with (what sounded like) the office junior, who told me somebody would call me back - and neither have yet got back to me. With the third one, I got straight through to a very friendly and helpful adviser, who knew what she was talking about, got the diary, made an appointment for a valuer to come out on one of my requested days at a time of day I asked for and confirmed by text and email. I'm still going to try the other two again, as I don't want to spite myself if their values come back significantly higher for the probate declaration; but guess which agent I'm currently planning on using already....!

I've just had another really good look on Google Earth and I reckon that there would easily be room for three, probably four starter homes on the plot, with parking for them all. Thinking logically, I'm now guessing that would be the most obvious thing for a developer to want to do.

I don't know how strict the planning laws are - whether there are rules in place to preserve a certain proportion of bungalows in one area (maybe they have 'assigned' bungalow areas?!) or whether it might go the other way and the planners be desperate to increase the volume of housing wherever possible. I'm guessing probably the latter. There is a mixture of bungalows and two-storey houses in the vicinity, so I don't think it would look out of place at all if the land were redeveloped into two-storey houses.

I'm even more interested to hear what the valuer reckons next week now!

I'd be getting prices for selling it as it is and selling as a building plot
If you are not in a hurry to sell, I'd look at getting planning permission myself

I've seen housed flipped, where someone has bought it, got planning for say four new builds, and then sold it on again for profit.

Absolutely not worth doing anything to it except sorting the garden to be visible. Even with the driveway it's not as simple as just tarmacing it you need to get council permission to drop the kerb and associated extra expenses.

Main thing definitely the garden because it's impossible to appreciate the size if it's really overgrown!

Anyone looking to buy with an eye to developing the plot wont be put off by weeds deceptively making it look smaller .They'll rely on measurements .

I'm pretty sure there will be no planning regs that require a balance of bungalows . Most local authorities aim for new build to blend in a bit .Though if they're minded to they'll nod through something startling on the grounds of "architectural significance " .There will be rules about size and "overdevelopment " of plots .You may want to look at recent planning applications in the area to see if there is anything similar ,local planning authorities publish these on line .

I would leave it as it is and advertise it as such. I would also advertise it as either needing improvement or the sale of land.

Don't do anything to it, much better for a person to do it up as THEY want. Isn't there something called a 'covenant' or suchlike you can put on it? I remember something like that on a house we looked at and were outraged - it said if the buyer later sold the land for building they would still have to pay a percentage to this seller. Seems unfair but was apparently legal. I wouldn't buy anything with this - and didn't - but someone might.

I agree with the PP about clearing the overgrown garden but leaving the rest. If the floorboards are sound I would also get rid of the nasty carpets- just so it's obvious that there's not work needed there. I definitely wouldn't paint the walls or re-carpet- I think this would just lead to lots of viewings from people who haven't bothered to read the description in full and want somewhere ready to move in to.

Re choice of estate agents. I sold a property that needed quite a bit of work not long ago and the first agent we marketed it with was part of a large chain and incredibly keen/responsive at first. Their marketing info etc made it sound like a total bargain with tons of potential and we got loads of viewings- but never any offers. We found out later that their staff are paid bonuses based far more on new clients and viewings than sales. The agent who sold it was much more realistic (to the point of sometimes seeming rather rude) and didn't send many to view but did find a buyer who really understood and wanted the place. So I would do a bit of research locally if you can.

Thanks, All - more great suggestions and advice; it's really helpful indeed.

If we were going to put in a cheap drive, it would be relatively easy as there is a dropped kerb and old (not opened for many years) gates there. It was designed as a proper, legitimate drive to begin with - it was just never needed and has got extremely overgrown! However, I'm now minded not to bother at all. If it is developed into several dwellings, they might want to keep the entrance to drive in but not necessarily have cars parked in that particular bit of the land.

I'd be getting prices for selling it as it is and selling as a building plot
If you are not in a hurry to sell, I'd look at getting planning permission myself

That's an excellent suggestion, thank you. How easy is it to get planning permission, and what does it cost roughly? Do you have to submit proper detailed architect plans or can you get provisional/in-principle permission, subject to final approval?

I'm not sure about the covenant thing - it does sound a bit of a bind for the buyer and a have-your-cake-and-eat-it situation. I'd have no objection personally to somebody buying it for a fair price, doing a huge amount of planning and development work, investing a lot of money into it, taking on all the risk and then making a hefty profit for all their effort; but I'd be massively annoyed if somebody bought it, applied for PP and then simply re-sold it soon after that for a whole load more. I despise middle-men who just insert themselves in there to cash in without really providing anything of great added value.

I hate restrictive covenants and claw backs. They are a pain in dealing with, and people often wait it out anyway. If you have the cash google planners, and get an assessment from a professional. They will tell you how many thousands it will cost, and the chances of success.

I’d honestly sell it as is. Everything will be ripped out anyway.

In this family we’ve sold two, after relatives have needed to go into care homes. Both were very dated, needing complete redecoration, new kitchens and bathrooms, all new flooring, etc.

Because none of us lived close to either, doing any upgrading would have been far more faff, hassle and expense that it was ever going to be worth. So they were sold as they were.

One sold very quickly, after my Dbro who was handling it, asked the EAs for very realistic valuations - we didn’t want the place hanging around for months on end, with the garden needing attention, etc., especially not through a winter.

The other hung around for over 18 months, because the relatives who had Power of Attorney and were handling the sale, lived a long way away (little idea of local prices) and took on trust the EA’s valuation, which turned out to be highly optimistic.

In the end, after several reductions, it sold to someone who’d offered quite a bit more 6 months previously - and been turned down.

Just saying. So I’d ask any EA for a realistic valuation, not what they think you want to hear.

If you have the cash google planners, and get an assessment from a professional. They will tell you how many thousands it will cost, and the chances of success.

We don't really have the cash or time - nor a great deal of inclination, to be honest. I think I'll look down the avenue of applying for 'in principle' planning permission to sell it alongside, but other than that, probably nothing other than clearing out the last of the contents.

I've no objection to somebody turning a decent profit on it in return for their work, expertise, cash investment, expertise, risk etc. - just don't want somebody who doesn't even bother going to see the property and just 'flips' it online, applies for PP and then cashes in for barely any effort at all.

Thanks, GETTING - that's very interesting to hear your experiences. We want to try and get as high a professional valuation as we can for probate purposes, but for actually selling, I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with maybe testing what the market might bear for a short period, but far too many people take the over-ambitious valuation given by an EA who wants to secure the commission as set in stone, and then feel ripped off when they wait for months and months and still never achieve it!

I would as cheaply as possible get the weeds cut back so the area looked larger. I would also pull up the carpets as you say. However, I would also give the place one coat of cheap white emulsion. There are lots of amateur developers or people who might want to take it on and if it just makes the spaces larger and more 'hopeful' you might attract a higher price. If you get two bidders rather than one you will probably more than cover your costs.

I seriously wouldn't do anything. I have bought lots of doer uppers & can see straight through the cheap jobs. It will all be ripped out. The house details will show an out line of the plot so no need to clear the garden, it's pointless
Get an architect round and talk to them. They will guide you if that's the route you want to take

I actually think I commented on the other thread you’re referring to but will repeat myself here! We inherited a do-er upper from my late MIL. We didn’t have the cash or the inclination to do it up ourselves and the estate agent advised us to sell it as it was - it was so clearly a do-er upper that no amount of fresh paint or new carpets was going to make a difference. Once we’d taken away all the sentimental items and furniture we wanted to keep we paid to have it cleared and cleaned. Even that the EA said we didn’t need to do but we did it more out of pride or something rather than it making any difference to the price. We’d also done extensive research into the local property market so felt reasonably well informed when talking to the EA and were happy with the sale price. We had a mix of developers and families interested but sold to a family.

That's an excellent suggestion, thank you. How easy is it to get planning permission, and what does it cost roughly? Do you have to submit proper detailed architect plans or can you get provisional/in-principle permission, subject to final approval?

You would need architect drawings and a planning application. Architect is around £3k if you just ask them to throw something together and don't want lots of input in the design. Then planning application. Cost varies by authority and design, ours was £400.

Would take 12ish weeks from the architect starting to you have permission.

As someone who's looking for a doer-upper to live in myself, don't do anything! I would want to do it to my taste and I hate ripping out new (but usually cheap and grey) fittings put in by 'developers' who just want to flip it for a quick profit. I'd much rather buy a dated, filthy but otherwise sound house and enjoy sorting it out myself :)

And tarmac costs a fortune, so don't go there.

Thanks again, everybody. I met with the valuer/estate agent yesterday and he was wonderful - genuine, really knowledgeable, happy to explain his reasoning understandably in great detail, very helpful, not at all pushy. He'd obviously done his research too. However, I have a lot more peace of mind from the wise advice and suggestions on this thread, consolidated by what he said than if I hadn't asked initially and settled my own mind about things first; after all, although a knowledgeable professional, he's also still just one person with one person's point of view!

The valuer echoed most of what you've been saying on here. My thinking was pretty much the same as Grimbelina - it just seems to make so much sense to make it a more attractive prospect to buyers, and I've had to fight the urge to keep coming back to this! Having done so, though, I would be lying if I claimed not to be very relieved at how much less time, work and hassle I now have to factor into things.

The valuer gave me a whole load of calculations based on the scenario of an intended owner-occupier buying it (very unlikely), a low-level/first-time developer - maybe a middle-aged son or daughter buying it to do up for their elderly parent(s) (quite possible), or a 'standard' property developer looking to completely gut it, get all the jobs done, modernise it and then sell on for a (well-earned) healthy profit (most likely).

He said to give it two or three weeks and see what offers come in before deciding; his opinion (and I know you could say 'he would say that, but he seemed scrupulously genuine to me) was that, in the current market, we would get some good interest, leading to a sale (even if the price does end up having to be reduced from a bold start a bit) - quite realistically to complete before the end of September, so that the buyer would benefit from the stamp duty break.

he also (kindly) disabused me of my idea that applying for PP before selling might be practical, simple or cheap!

He spent some time considering the costs and practicalities for somebody to knock it down and rebuild from scratch (flats/maisonettes/starter homes etc.), but he reckons the finances come down quite significantly in favour of taking the existing building back to a shell, getting all of the jobs/upgrading done one by one and making it the best it can be. It will be quite large-scale work, so with that in mind, any decorating, taking up carpets, landscaping or whatever would be pointless and a real waste. The only thing he said was worth doing was to get the boiler serviced and certified as safe, if I can co-ordinate that with when I'm next there.

I'm really relieved now, anyway, and have settled it in my mind properly. It's just a case of finding a new home for the (relatively few) rest of the contents, getting the boiler man back in and then getting it on the market. As Aozora put it so well, we could probably just leave any unwanted items there, and they'd end up slung in a skip with all the old carpet, plasterboard etc.; but it is pride and a personal sense of respect to my relative not to just abandon her personal belongings. Even though some things will need to go to the tip, I want to do this myself and rationalise that these items served her very well, but have now done their time, rather than just leave them by default to become 'that old junk in the back room' to be chucked in a skip without ceremony or a second's thought. I'm probably irrational, I know!

Once again, thank you all so much - you really have all been a tremendous help in getting my head around this, both practically and emotionally.