'Nurses are well paid for the job'

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

An MP said this today, in responce to the debate surrounding the 1% pay rise. Im a nurse, and I know what I think (that the pay is ok, not terrible but not fantastic), im really interested to know what others think?

Whilst I dont think ypir standard nursing pay is terrible, as I said in my OP, @snufkins I think you're being a bit dismissive of what most nurses are living with. Most dont already have savings and most arent in a position to save that much.

I thought nurses earned less to be honest until I saw the recent discussion in the press. I think 24k starting is reasonable but the progression is v poor, an experienced nurse ought to be able to earn more than 30k. I assume they don't get paid any extra for antisocial hours etc?

I also think it is hugely different across the country, in Cornwall or rural Wales 24k is a really good salary, in the south east you would struggle to live on that as a single person never mind raising a family.

Yes there is extra pay for unsociable hours.

What @BungleandGeorge said. Teaching and nursing are both shortage professions. My impression is that it's more because of working conditions than salary in both cases. But we either pay them more or improve the working conditions (which may cost just as much) or we'll continue to get people moving abroad or leaving the profession.

@InDubiousBattle I'd agree with that.

I know 3 nurses, all are late 30s- late 40s, and have been in nursing for up to 20 years. The lowest earner is on c 40k a year for a 30 hour week. The other 2 (one of whom is very senior, the other highly specialised) earn about 75-80k. I think those salaries seem pretty good to me.

I also thought "for the job" was rather insulting, implying it's somehow an easy job, and also the comparison with others who have less secure jobs was in poor taste. We should be improving job security for all, not telling nurses to be grateful they aren't on zero hours.

I work in a hospital, the pay is vad that I hear nurses grumble about it often, I don't grumble I knew what I was getting into. It's well known those in any health and social care sectors are paid badly for what they do, why would anyone think different? If you are only becoming a nurse, care worker or anything in between for the money then I'm sorry you are in the wrong job.

@ “well paid”
My 1% pay rise works out as £1.50 extra per working day (or 72p per day of the year) - I am a band 6 nurse, working just below full time hours.

Year after year nurses are less well off due to the last recession’s austerity measures and no pay rises for 10 years between 2008-2018. I’m not greedy, it would just be nice to have a yearly pay rise linked to inflation. I don’t expect to be wealthy, I just don’t want to be less well off every year.

When I was younger and without child I considered moving to Saudi for a 5k per month pay check. I wish I did it!

I think it's not great for the training, shift working and emotional toll required. But more importantly it's not high enough to area and retain enough nurses in the NHS, we need to raise it enough to fill the tens of thousands of vacancies in the NHS.

I think that returning it in real terms to 2008 levels, which I think is around 15% uplift would be a good start.

I also thought "for the job" was rather insulting

Agreed!

I'm a band 6 nurse with 30yrs experience. No degree, no diploma. I was one of the last old fashioned nurses who trained on a salary, as part of the workforce.
I'm a specialist nurse, performing surgery removing suspicious lesions. Not high powered surgery but surgery none the less. There are probably less than 100 nurse surgeons in the country. But I get paid less than a fast food restaurant manager.

@Savethewhales but nurses are being paid less now than they were getting 12 years ago, surely you'd at least expect wages to keep pace with inflation?

They want more nurses there is many hcas that would jump over to become a nurse but poor grades and having to go back to college for over a year before even stepping foot inside a university to train is what puts them off. They should go back to how nurses were trained years ago, rather than piddling about and getting those not even qualified into debt before they've even graduated

I think one thing people fail to take into account much is the distribution of salaries over the entire profession.

Nursing pay is like a lot of other public sector pay - it doesn't ever get that high, but the variance is a lot lower than what you find in the private sector. Almost all nurses will, it seems, earn more than the median UK income, if they work full time for a few years. People would be amazed if they found out what the bottom quarter of, say, lawyers earn!

Even the reformed 2015 NHS career average pension is a defined benefit scheme that is worth way, way more than the typical private sector pension.

On the other hand, I have been looking at a real pay (inflation adjusted) comparison between 2010 salaries in the private sector versus health professionals, in the UK.

It's also pretty clear that NHS pay has failed to keep pace with inflation over the last decade - down about 8% in real terms since 2010. Private sector pay, over the same period, is up (a still paltry) 2%.

So, all in - nurses are still paid ok, with limited upside or downside risk, and a still-good pension but your pay has very noticeably failed to keep pace with inflation which would anger me also, were I a nurse.

So, you have my support!

I think the starting salary is Ok.

I think the main thing is that 1) nurses with advanced roles - specialist skills or with prescribing practitioner roles, should get a good chunk more a) because they deserve it and b) because it would attract more high caliber talent and 2) standard level nurses get a bit more and the number of staff are upped so the job isn’t so taxing.

@Savethewhales

I work in a hospital, the pay is vad that I hear nurses grumble about it often, I don't grumble I knew what I was getting into. It's well known those in any health and social care sectors are paid badly for what they do, why would anyone think different? If you are only becoming a nurse, care worker or anything in between for the money then I'm sorry you are in the wrong job.

Perhaps they became nurses more than 10 years ago when the salary was effectively 15% higher, the retirement age was 60 and the pension contribution was 6% less? It would be better if they just worked for free really, after all it should be a vocation, it’s only other people who have bills to pay

@HotPenguin yes nhs are paid more for “unsociable hours” night shifts and weekends are also paid more ph

9.07, senior care assistant, most times working outwith my hours, sometimes I was the only 1 in the building to cater for 20 OAPS, dishing out meds, answer their emergency calls, sort out their laundry, take food to their flats, call up doctors and pharmacy's, we had no nurses, if they got to the stage the oap needed nursing care then then it was time to move to a place that had nurses, take numerous complaints from families, social workers everyone, stressed out my head, nose bleeds because of it, Not ever did I complain or ask for more, because I was just a care assistant, I put up with it. I'm earning more in the NHS doing less than what I did there. It's the way it is, you aren't suffering its the patients that suffer

If you are only becoming a nurse, care worker or anything in between for the money then I'm sorry you are in the wrong job

Minimum wage for us all then! If you follow that logic.

@mendandmakedo

Pension age for nhs is now linked to the state pension age. Staff have to a pay large amount of their wage in to it or opt out of it there is no middle ground.

Yep, it used to be a good deal, not so much over the last 10 years for new starters. And in the decade I have worked for the NHS I have had low single digit pay rises (usually 1%) while inflation has risen faster. Not all nursing roles are the same, so that should be taken into account. But on the whole 24 is not much for what nurses do.

I think like most jobs it depends where in the country you live, even taking account of London weighting.
Where I live graduates start on about £18- 20k. A couple earning say £25k each could buy a small property go on holiday etc.
So around here decent salary but I can see it wouldn’t be the same in London. You also presumably are at lower risk of redundancy and can work anywhere in the country.

Sexnotgender *

Band 6 £31-39k
Band 7 £39-46k

Not terrible?*

There are few Band 6 posts (senior Nurse still in clinical practice) and even fewer Band 7 (which in Nursing is a management grade). Vast majority of Nursing posts are Band 5.

I don’t think it’s bad tbh. The fact that quoted salaries don’t include antisocial hours payments makes a big difference. Nurses pay a fair whack towards their pension (much like the rest of the public sector) but it is still a massive advantage.

Working conditions, on the other hand, sound shocking and money definitely needs to be put in to putting that right.

I am a band 5 on the bottom rate. As a care assistant I could earn 10 per hour in some homes. I did a 3 Yr degree and have to maintain registration etc and get 12.74 per hour for much more responsibility.

I think as cost of living has gone up, it doesn't seem that good now.