'Nurses are well paid for the job'

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

An MP said this today, in responce to the debate surrounding the 1% pay rise. Im a nurse, and I know what I think (that the pay is ok, not terrible but not fantastic), im really interested to know what others think?

How quickly will pata legals work up though? I know nurses who have been required to to masters who still earn only top of band 5 they are in there 40s and will stay on that banding. Nurses on wards, paediatrics, surgical, ICU are highly skilled and not paid very much at all for their specialist knowledge. If you compare to what a telecom engineer earns. Nurses don't earn anywhere near what they deserve

@Snufkins, you're talking about joint salaries. In a lot of areas in the SE the only property you'd be able to afford on 27k would be a garage

Most nurses aren't on 40 to 50 even after 20 years top band 6 which is sister is 37000. team leaders up to 45,000 any more than that is band 8 territory. With the more money comes more responsibility.

New graduate nurses are paid less than new graduate teachers and they work longer hours and have fewer holidays. Surely covid must provoke a rethink? In the USA the situation is reversed.

@sexnotgender what you dont see with that is the amount of extra training needed to get to that band 7 level. Im a brand new nurse practitioner, and id say ive done, in total, 2-3 extra years at uni to get the quals needed.

Snufkins : don't think you are telling us the whole story mate ,are you ? How did you get a mortgage on two Band 5s without a hefty deposit ? Mmm?

I have a chum on critical care who has been asked to be the unit coordinator the odd day she is band 5 very experienced with over 10 years and will be top band 5 30k

And why compare nurses to teachers? How about the police force? Lovely high starting salaries.

I think the starting salary is ok and I know a few nurses who are on a good salary ( higher up the pay scale though and qualified a while now). I don’t necessarily feel the pay reflects the job roles though in nursing the role of an itu nurse differs from a nurse in the ent unit, surely?

I will add we live in area of cheaper housing, less job opportunities so compared to more local salaried jobs the pay is good and I feel the pay rise is justified in current circumstances.

I do feel the training needs the full bursary bringing back so student nurses are not studying and training/working on the wards whilst accruing £9000 p.a student loan.

[quote Letsallscreamatthesistene]@sexnotgender what you dont see with that is the amount of extra training needed to get to that band 7 level. Im a brand new nurse practitioner, and id say ive done, in total, 2-3 extra years at uni to get the quals needed.[/quote]
That’s pretty standard in many professions doing extra qualifications to progress.

The progression through to the next band is limited though. It is moving into management or nurse practitioner status. The majority of nurses will be band 5 their whole careers even the ones with masters. There is an expectation of personal development but those qualifications don't necessarily mean extra money. Band 6 and 7 jobs are limited

@BungleandGeorge training contracts are in short supply, plus the LPC costs are huge, many law grads are reluctant to incur the LPC cost on top of existing debt if they don't have a training contract. Some use paralegal work as an 'in' to a firm, in the hope that a training contract opportunity to may arise. Some unscrupulous firms will hint that those training ops exist, when in reality the paralegal has no chance of ever getting one. If you're a paralegal in Central London and you have experience you can command closer to 30k, I know some (who are actually qualified lawyers but in another jurisdiction) on 50-60k. But for new grads in smaller firms in a non central location, they'd be lucky to get 20k. It's why quite a few leave after a year for better money in other sectors. Those that stay will get pay increases over time but not massively - those who have been there for 2-3 years are on about 20k maybe.

@RickiTarr

I think the pay scale is comparable with the teachers’ pay scale, and while both jobs are beyond price, and hugely socially important careers, they are the two graduate professions that are needed in really massive numbers. So in realistic economic terms, I think nurses do okay.

Teachers get paid considerably more based on contracted hours and the pension is better. Retirement age for NHS is 68 or whatever age they put state retirement age up to which is also worse than teachers pension. The bottom line is that if you can’t recruit easily or retain staff whatever anyone thinks the pay is too low and/or the conditions are poor. That goes for nurses and teachers in some subjects. No disrespect to nurses but there are loads of jobs I could do for their pay which are much easier/ less responsibility/ less stressful/ better hours. Maybe everyone should go do a shift as a nurse?! And the higher paid nurses are taking huge amounts of responsibility and doing minor surgeries and procedures, diagnosing, prescribing. Things that traditionally would have been done by doctors

@Jumpintothefire ok ‘mate’ we both qualified and worked in London and saved £15k each in 5 years then moved. Plus original savings. You get what you work for.

I think it's very good. I'm applying for a managerial role at the moment which is 23.5k. I've never earned more than that. That's less than a nurse's starting wage. Plus nurses have an NHS pension and lots of discounts too.

Let's face it, a traditionally female 'caring' job will never earn a decent living wage

All nursing requires different skill set and knowledge icu is very specialised, they have less patients. nurse on ent ward may well be ran ragged need to have wits about her in ensuring patients are all postoperative well etc. I think hard to specify differences in pay.

I dont agree re Nurse Practitioners. They're asked to diagnose and treat conditions. Im in a GP surgery and whilst complex patients go to the GPs, nurse practitioners will take on the simpler cases. I used to work in A+E, and nurse practitioners took on those patients. I dont think that pay is fair for the responsibility of the job.

As recently retired Nurse , I was happy with salary. Always had a lot more annual leave than partner. 33 days plus bank holidays. Although that was after 10 years service.

@Grenlei

I think the pay is reasonable, we have paralegals working for us who have law degrees on 16-17k a year.

As has been said, you get the advantage of public sector pensions (my employer contributes 3% and we've had no pay rise for the last 2 years...) plus opportunities for overtime, bank work etc.

Racing to the bottom benefits no one other than the fat cats at the top.

No OP, I don't think they get paid enough for what they do. I was part of the local admin team for Agenda for Change, I had to chase down people's supporting documents for the assessment, which involved ringing up or visiting wards, I saw some of the shit nurses had to deal with.

I work in the nhs as a manager and when I learnt nurses start on a band 5 I was really shocked. I started as a band 5 in a senior admin role - no responsibility really in a very easy job which in no way compares to a band 5 nurse role looking after patients

Of the three nurses I know well, two are on around £40k and one is on £52k. They're in their early 40's so have been in nursing for around 20 years. I think that it's generally quite well paid, not great but not dreadful.

Forgot to add that was at a low security mental health unit.

@Snufkins

I think it’s ok. DH and I are both Band 5 nurses...we own a 4 bed house, 2 cars, fly long haul on holiday, don’t have to really scrimp and save. For the job I do i think it’s fine. The nurses using food banks, sorry but I don’t know what they’re spending their money on!

The nurses using food banks obviously live somewhere with a higher cost of living than you.

Can you really not imagine that a single mother in the south east might struggle to support her children on £24k?

I think the 1 % pay rise is fair considering the past year we’ve had.Many have lost jobs or their companies are using Furlough in a very inappropriate way.The vast sum of money being used to support people in this country is outstanding and commendable.The Gov didn’t have to dish it out and we shouldn’t behave like we’re entitled to it either.For anyone to be getting any sort of pay rise is good.Everyone is just doing their jobs,and it would be difficult to draw the line on who deserves it and who doesn’t.