Addressing offensive song?

[Toomuch2019]

Hi, wanted some advice really. My child has just been participating in an online uniformed group and they have just been singing a song with the following lyrics.

Indians are high minded
bless my soul they're double jointed
They climb hills and don’t mind it
All day long.

Felt very uneasy about it as appears racist to me. Do people agree, it's not just me is it? And any tips on how I address?

I do not read anything judgmental into those words. I read that people on the sub-continent of India have a broad vision and find ways to overcome problems because that is what they have had to do for hundreds and probably thousands of years.

What do those words conjure up for you OP?

To be clear I am asking you why you feel those words are racist.

I do not

Hi OP, I cannot see that there is racist content in there, if anything the lyrics seem to be complimentary don't they? Can't see anything wrong with being high minded and being willing/strong enough to climb hills a lot. I think recognising a native American Indian song doesn't necessarily mean racist intentions.I look on it as paying homage (and hopefully I am not being naive in this) I've just done a bit of internet research and someone is saying they were taught the song by a native American Indian as a girl scout in Indiana.

..suppose you will wish to disclose the uniform group who sang the song?

Of course it’s fucking racist! Good grief...I’ve seen mumsnet bend over backwards to convince itself something isn’t racist but this is something else.

Er yes I’d be taking that song off the playlist if I were them. On googling it looks like other Girl Scout groups have swapped it so it reads about Girl Scouts instead.

It's not one I'd be comfortable with ....maybe talk to the Scout /Guide leader and explain that this perpetuates outdated opinions as well as using controversial terminology to refer to the indigenous population of North America. It's ok to be "that parent" on this occasion

@PammieDooveOrangeJoof

Er yes I’d be taking that song off the playlist if I were them. On googling it looks like other Girl Scout groups have swapped it so it reads about Girl Scouts instead.

I was just about to say this. I can't put my finger on why I'm not keen, probably because of the generalisation of "Indians" which in this case actually seems to refer to native Americans.

I can totally put my finger on what's wrong with it - it's making sweeping statements about a specific ethnic group.

It has no place in modern scouting or whatever. I'd speak to the group leader but I'd also escalate.

Yep racist to me too!

I thought (on reading for the first time today) it was purely a historical song, a bit like a sea shanty depicts sailors in days gone by. If the lyric about climbing means more that then I stand corrected. Assuming everyone means offence isn't helpful (this online team leader) and assuming anything depicting race is racist isn't helpful. It might, it might not, it's up to ourselves to be educated and make our own judgements There is a difference between meaning offence and ill judging things due to lack of knowledge.

Yea, it's attempting to be...conplimentary/positive/educational...I don't know but it doesn't read well.

"Indians" aren't anything if you're making sweeping statements that one can't tell if you actually see it as a good thing or not. So I agree OP, it's easily racist. if it's an old song, it's not aged well at least. If it's a new one, they have to be more aware at least.

How do people think whatever this song is about is ok? It's obviously stereotyping and kids shouldn't be singing such songs.

And to a pp, there is no such term as "Native American Indian".

@shadypines

I thought (on reading for the first time today) it was purely a historical song, a bit like a sea shanty depicts sailors in days gone by. If the lyric about climbing means more that then I stand corrected. Assuming everyone means offence isn't helpful (this online team leader) and assuming anything depicting race is racist isn't helpful. It might, it might not, it's up to ourselves to be educated and make our own judgements There is a difference between meaning offence and ill judging things due to lack of knowledge.

Sea shanty's depicted sailors as drunken west country or Irish pirates. They were keel-hauled early in the morning though.

@LaceyBetty

I don't understand your point. The term exists, the pp used it. Which of the 3 words do you object to?

It wasn't until I moved to the UK from Canada that I realised people in other parts of the world still referred to Native Americans and Native Canadians as Indians. Or worse, Red Indians.

And thought it was ok.

That was to @VeniVidiWeeWee

Well, you might want to take it up with the Smithsonian. They run the National Museum of the American Indian. To quote their website:

What is the correct terminology: American Indian, Indian, Native American, or Native?
All of these terms are acceptable. The consensus, however, is that whenever possible, Native people prefer to be called by their specific tribal name. In the United States, Native American has been widely used but is falling out of favor with some groups, and the terms American Indian or indigenous American are preferred by many Native people.

Because the Smithsonian is the last word on this matter.

Isn't it about 'Indians' in Nepal? Ie Sherpas. That's why they are climbing mountains? Very racist. I'd be horrified tbh! So colonial and horrible. Although tbf, grouping people together in a stereotype like that is offensive whoever it's about. It's so judgy and othering.

if anything the lyrics seem to be complimentary don't they FFS

When is the 21st century going to arrive in the UK?

@LaceyBetty

Because the Smithsonian is the last word on this matter.

Rather more so than a random on the internet.

Personally I think calling anyone native anything is a bit crap.

'The natives' has a distinctly colonial whiff about it and adding Americans or Canadians after doesn't sound much better.

Indigenous is a much better word