Unregistered child, home birth, no medical intervention

[LudoBear]

Just Monday morning ponderings.

I wonder how many children/adults out there have been born at home, no medical intervention throughout pregnancy, baby never registered, home schooled, never went to doctors etc. I wonder how long it would be possible to go without a child ever being legally known anywhere

Generally though Travellers just register their babies at birth the same as everyone else does, for whoever asked upthread

Not quite the same, but I’m always amazed parents don’t get a kind of check before they are allowed to just become parents.

I mean, you give birth, and then they just wave you off and let you go home. Having never looked after a child before.
Surely some people really do struggle with that and need help? Nobody checks you live in a decent home, that’s clean, warm, not rat infested. Nobody actually advises anything. You only get advise if you seek it out additionally.

When I wanted to regime two kittens from a shelter type place, I had an inspection of house, had to fill in form about how much time we would be around, etc.. honestly the cats were more specialised care in being rehomed.

Ds has had check ups as he’s vaccinated, and we booked private midwife for the first 2 months checks ( born during first lockdown). But he’s never been ill, so I guess if we chose not to vaccinate he probably would never have been seen since by professionals.

@niceandsimple the register has the births on their computer.

@ExcusesAndAccusations it’s still scarily easy for the state to lose track of where a child is. children don’t need to be tracked! If a child is abused/neglected then social workers should be involved for a short a period as is necessary for the safety and welfare of the child.

Not quite the same thing, but I tried to help a friend of DH's apply for heating allowance and some kind of income support type benefits/pension when we went into lockdown last year

He'd always survived on his (very low paid) cash in hand job. He'd been there since he was 30, accommodation and meal allowance was included. But they had to close due to the pandemic.

I was told basically that using the details he had, he didn't exist in any kind of system. He remembers having a birth certificate at some point, but it got lost years ago. Never had a passport or a bank account. He had a driving license (paper one) but hadn't driven for 20 years due to bad eye sight. He had a GP and regularly saw them for on going conditions, but as far as claiming any kind of support benefits, he had no NI number (that they could find) so he wasn't traceable.

Sadly he died last Summer so we never got to the bottom of it all.

[quote ShopTattsyrup]@barbaraofSeville - you can give any name and date of birth you like at a hospital, we don't check (or in mine we don't). When you arrive you give your name and DOB and if you've never attended the hospital before the computer will generate you a fresh Patient Record with a fresh hospital number. But there is nothing to stop you saying that you are Joan Smith 01.01.1990 when you're not ...

We had a variation on this recently where a patient had written down their DOB the american way with Month/Date/Year ... caused no end of confusion when the computer kept trying to tell us that this person had a long list of medical complaints that they didn't actually have![/quote]
Won’t most people be asked for GP details, or for their national health number, surely that is how most health needs are tracked.

How would a child never see a doctor or have an accident or an injury that needs seeing to? And this continue their whole life? How?

You don’t need photo ID to get a job because not everyone has it, but if you don’t then you’d need to show a birth certificate and a government letter with name and NI number. Legally you can’t employ someone without seeing either a passport or those two documents. Though in practice many small employers who don’t have an HR department don’t bother.

About 10 years ago we moved abroad.

My DS had been in nursery school and we pulled him out in the June, had to give the nursery school a letter stating reasons why etc. Declined his Primary school place etc.

We moved to stay with my sister for a couple of months in a different city prior to the move abroad .

We had been living abroad about 4 months or so, when my sister back in the Uk had the Children Missing Education Team at her door asking about our DS.

I had to email the council and explain I had informed nursery school of move in writing etc, and that we were now living abroad.

My DD was never mentioned, she was 2 and not yet in nursery school - although she had been registered at a GP from my Sister's address prior to moving aboard as I had concerns about her hearing and had had a hospital OPA for this. I remember thinking at the time, no one was concerned about her being "missing" as she had not yet started school.

I disagree that children don’t need to be tracked.

I remember a child murder case from the 1970s. The child’s family explained her absence as due to her moving to another part of the country to live with her mother. The authorities didn’t check that she’d actually moved, and been enrolled in a new school.

And so Fred and Rosemary West got away with their crimes for another twenty years...

@Lorieandrews

Friend of mine whom I met some 30 years ago. Never knew his birthday. I remember when I met him I’d asked him how old he was and he said I don’t know. I thought he was joking. But it transpired that he was left outside a fire station. In the olden days. Ha. He’d kill me saying that! But anyway. It turned out he was left. Someone took him in. Seeing as they didn’t have an official adoption process. The lady who adopted him never knew his name or birthday. So made one up

Like others have said. He’s never been able to get a driving license or passport. But the lady who ‘adopted’ him left him multiple big houses within central London. So he did well for himself. He was somehow able to register himself so he could have his own business. Which went on to be successful in his own right. But he’s never known who his parents are. When he was born. Or what his name was

I’m always absolutely fascinated by the story. It’s like poof. He appeared!

@Lorieandrews: do you think he might be his 'benefactress's' illegitmate child?

@Caspianberg That’s the purpose of the antenatal health visitor check.

No antenatal visitor check but first midwife visit after dd home she wanted to wash her hands - I showed her to downstairs loo and she said no she’d pop upstairs I presumed to check on dd’s sleeping arrangements.
DD was born with a disability and we fell through cracks and got no visits HV team, got an official apology from head HV. I didn’t complain I think paediatric consultant did as she was appalled. We/DD we’re ok but we might not have been and I obviously didn’t get any specialist info (found my own support group etc)

Despairing A famous actress did that. Pretended to adopt 2 little girls but sent one back as ‘the Mother changed her mind’ and kept one. But it was her natural child she kept born in age when having an illegitimate baby world have harmed her career.

I think it would probably depend on who you know. If you have friends who run small businesses or can offer cash in hand work, or you live somewhere 'off the grid', you could probably get through life without raising too many questions. If you want to do things like go to uni, it would be much harder.

Won’t most people be asked for GP details, or for their national health number, surely that is how most health needs are tracked.

I went to A&E shortly after moving back to the UK. They asked me for my GP details, I said I hadn't registered anywhere yet and they didn't question further.

From experience, the NHS are very bad at tracking whether people actually qualify for NHS treatment. So if a fake name was given you could probably get away with it.

Not really the same thing ,but my DGF was born in the 1890s. Not many had a Birth Certificate then as you had to pay a small sum .DGF felt sure his birthday was the 23 05 1895 .

@Caspianberg: re parents getting checked: adoptive parents do, & those seeking fertility treatments.

I often think that a lot of human suffering would be alleviated if new/prospective parents got the same checks you describe!

I don’t think those seeking fertility treatment have any checks other than health checks related to their treatment?

@Pickupapigeon - I never had any antenatal check where they checked my home or parenting? They had and have no idea what kind of home we live in.
Luckily for Ds is your bog standard, clean, nice home. Decent food etc.
But no one actually knows that do they?

@Cattenberg being murdered or abused and not known to the authorities is incredibly rare. The vast majority of such children are not only registered but in school and know to social services.

@LoopyLouLawson
had to give the nursery school a letter stating reasons why etc no you did not legally have to give a reason.

I had to email the council and explain I had informed nursery school of move in writing etc, and that we were now living abroad. there is no legal requirement to email the council.

Nobody enquired about your daughter because it was an education check not a safeguarding check.
In the UK thankfully the default position is not every parent is a potential child abuser.

@Caspianberg I think it must be another postcode lottery.

@Cattenberg

I disagree that children don’t need to be tracked.

I remember a child murder case from the 1970s. The child’s family explained her absence as due to her moving to another part of the country to live with her mother. The authorities didn’t check that she’d actually moved, and been enrolled in a new school.

And so Fred and Rosemary West got away with their crimes for another twenty years...

I agree, just like adults have to have declare their address to pay local taxes.