Unregistered child, home birth, no medical intervention

[LudoBear]

Just Monday morning ponderings.

I wonder how many children/adults out there have been born at home, no medical intervention throughout pregnancy, baby never registered, home schooled, never went to doctors etc. I wonder how long it would be possible to go without a child ever being legally known anywhere

The FLDS group did this in the USA and indeed some children born in one compound later had to go to court once grown up to be registered.

There was a case in Australia where they found a family that had been living completly off the grid for like 40 years. They had inbreed and the kids were in an awful state. Some of them very young girls who were pregnant by their brothers. Awful situation.
Found some more details on wiki after this thread reminded me of it.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_clan_incest_case

I'm in Ireland, and my ex boyfriend left school at 18, went to sign on the dole to find out he didn't officially exist. His mother had him at home and never registered him. He couldn't understand how he'd gone all through school, doctors etc. without anyone noticing.

I have two National Insurance numbers registered to me. Same DOB, name, addresses etc. Doesn't matter how many times I've spoken to agencies they can't seem to shut one of them down. I've just spent my life using one 🤷🏻‍♀️

I work in children's services. This would be a huge red flag but absolutely agree this could happen, and does happen. Concealed pregnancy is a huge area of concern in itself. I have found non registered children in travelling communities as well and absolutely they have been hidden.

Although our benefits systems provides massive incentives to register - i.e. you get money - child benefit etc so I really do not think it is a huge issue in the UK.It is also illegal not to register all births in the UK within I think it is 6 weeks.

@raskolnikova ty for that recommendation podcast it was really interesting

The pandemic has shone a bit of a light on how many people are living here unofficially. There are huge queues for food banks that operate with no questions asked and no need for a referral. A lot of people aren’t able to make money in the way they used to and have no recourse to official help.

Friend of mine whom I met some 30 years ago. Never knew his birthday. I remember when I met him I’d asked him how old he was and he said I don’t know. I thought he was joking. But it transpired that he was left outside a fire station. In the olden days. Ha. He’d kill me saying that! But anyway. It turned out he was left. Someone took him in. Seeing as they didn’t have an official adoption process. The lady who adopted him never knew his name or birthday. So made one up

Like others have said. He’s never been able to get a driving license or passport. But the lady who ‘adopted’ him left him multiple big houses within central London. So he did well for himself. He was somehow able to register himself so he could have his own business. Which went on to be successful in his own right. But he’s never known who his parents are. When he was born. Or what his name was

I’m always absolutely fascinated by the story. It’s like poof. He appeared!

In 1984 I worked with a lady who was born a POW and had no bc didn’t know how old she was.

An ex boyfriend wasn’t registered. British Irish parents so probably hasn’t been deported but he was abusive so I don’t care if he’s been deported.

His father wasn’t interested and his mother just didn’t bother registering his birth.

I don't really see an advantage to it though it's possible. It's more likely with illegal immigrants as they don't want to draw attention to themselves from the authorties.

@TitusPullo

I’ve wondered this. I am amazed how little interaction we’ve had with anyone official since my baby was born. I did give birth in the hospital and my child is registered, but there is no health visitor service, so no one has seen them since 6 weeks old. I don’t really know what I expected, I was just a bit surprised how much you are left to get on with it really.

I’m really concerned about this. So many children, to young to ask for help have been left to it. Children are meant to have a 2 year check and as a childminder, I’ve got three two year olds, who will be 3 in the next couple of months and none of them have heard anything from the health visitor for over 12 months! That is far more than an over stretched system, that’s one that isn’t working at all! I know that these 3 are all ok, but who is checking up on all the other parents to check they are not struggling?

@ArcheryAnnie

if you want to rent a flat or get a job, you need official photo identification.

No you don't. I've never owned a photo ID in my life, and I don't have any official ID at all. I've rented 4 different flats entirely in my own name, and had a couple of jobs.

I'm banned from driving due to my disability and medication so I can't use a driving licence as ID, and I don't have a passport as my disability makes travel not worth bothering as it's too stressful/painful.

There is little else available as official ID apart from the above, and it's very much not needed for most parts of life. I've got a bank account, claim benefits, rent a flat, went to uni, etc and I've never been asked to show ID. Just stuff like letters addressed to me.

I agree @Maryann1975 - I am very fortunate to have a strong support network many of who have had children but I am aware that others do not. So much more could be done to help children who may need some intervention before they reach school age.

I knew someone who never had a birth certificate and did not know when his birthday was - in a civilized country too. Careless parents!?

In the early 1900s a great-great aunt (something like that) was born on a ship travelling from England to America (her parents were emigrating) and due to a lack of joined-up paperwork she never had a birth certificate and couldn't prove whether she was an English or American citizen. Back then this didn't matter as much as women often didn't work and lived off their husband's income instead, but I wonder what would have happened if she had been a boy who would have been expected to go out and get a job in due course. Or indeed, what happens nowadays if a pregnant woman gives birth unexpectedly when she is travelling between two countries.

My friend was born in the UK, lived here all his life, schools, university, work no problems. Couldn't get a passport to go on holiday and faced being deported somehow (no idea which country they thought they'd be able to deport him to).

It was sorted out eventually and cost quite a bit.

[quote niceandsimple]**@misselphaba* and @iolaus*
thank you. I didn't know that. but they didn't even check i was who i said i was. Surely i could have been anyone[/quote]
Who had guessed your baby's correct birth date ? It comes across as you are trying to make this into something it isn't.

At @SunshineCake - a fair few people announce baby’s sex, name, weight, dob and time of birth when they are born. It would be odd but someone who knew the mother probably could try registering the birth. I don’t know why they would or what it would achieve, but it could be possible. I was asked for ID at the registry office though.

[quote Enko]@raskolnikova ty for that recommendation podcast it was really interesting[/quote]
www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/invisible-girl

Glad you enjoyed it! Here's a link for anyone else interested. I think I'll re-listen later.

For some reason to do with my dad being a twin he never got his own birth certificate. That took a hassle to sort out when he wanted to travel abroad in about 1970. He says he must never lose his passport. Born in a rich country not UK, 1940s.

How do the children of Travellers get registered?

A woman I worked with had been born prematurely in America, all her mother's family and siblings were in the UK or Ireland. She lived here since birth. She got deported but by the time she'd got it sorted had decided to stay there as she'd settled.

@barbaraofSeville - you can give any name and date of birth you like at a hospital, we don't check (or in mine we don't). When you arrive you give your name and DOB and if you've never attended the hospital before the computer will generate you a fresh Patient Record with a fresh hospital number. But there is nothing to stop you saying that you are Joan Smith 01.01.1990 when you're not ...

We had a variation on this recently where a patient had written down their DOB the american way with Month/Date/Year ... caused no end of confusion when the computer kept trying to tell us that this person had a long list of medical complaints that they didn't actually have!

I know of one, the child must be about 8 now. I think the mother may well have now registered the child though as it was all down to the father that the baby was not registered in the first place and when they split up a few years ago I know the mother made some big lifestyle changes [understatement]. I don't know them well enough to ask though!

They were travellers but the man had gone completely down the FOTL rabbithole and was on a quest to live without money. Tbh he was obviously both mentally ill and a controlling arse, and the mother was young and starry eyed and naive and just went along with it.