To be upset that my friend disciplined my ds

[Winkle2020]

So we have this friend of us who has a dd age 2 and my son aged 3. While playing my ds kissed her daughter in an affectionate way. My friend just screamed as if my ds has done something terribly wrong infront of other friends. And she also went on to discipline him infront of me. She then took her dd angrily upstairs and came back after a while. She looked upset and I could feel that she was struggling to even smile. I knew that she is over protective about her dd ( I am saying this because from certain instances like she not sending her to nursery, not taking her to parks infact never took her dd to any public parks fearing she would catch infection) , I mean myself and my husband are very laid back and we always taught our little ones to be affectionate to others. My ds kisses me his dad and his little sis a good night kiss everyday. I dont even know if this is something I should be worried and ask my ds to stop doing that to my friends dd, but I kind of dont like the way my friend reacted to this whole thing and it kinda upsetted me. I was embarrassed when she disciplined my ds and I really wanted to leave their house immediately. Am I at the wrong side ? Honestly I was telling my husband about this and said we should try and avoid going to their house for a while. Not linked to this issue but wanted to add, this is the same friend who was our support bubble 2 months ago when I gave birth to my dd. She straight out said no to look after my ds on the day of my delivery, telling me that it's not safe (she initially said ok to look after him, and changed her decision just 3 days before my delivery, so I had to find a childminder in that short span of time. Most of them were full and had no space for him and I even came to a decision to go through labor alone so that my dh can stay with ds). I never took her decision to heart and carried on to have a nice friendship with her. But what happened today is kinda triggering me in a way that I am starting to think, why should I let my ds down infront of these people. Please tell me if I am wrong and what I should be ideally doing.

[NameChangedForThisFeb21]

@Winkle2020

Why are you assuming she thought your child was a pervert rather than acknowledging the many posters suggesting this is Covid anxiety.

I agree that things changed very rapidly two months ago with the pandemic becoming much more dangerous and can see why she might have agreed to have your son pre Christmas then backed out when you came close to birth. She was following government guidelines.

Although why are you all indoor mixing? And with other friends too. That’s not allowed.

[CantBeAssed]

My ds is nearly 4 and has always been very affectionate with everyone but he is now at am age where im trying to teach him boundaries as he can been very "overbearing" and can "alarm" some children without realising he is doing it...
However it isnt up to your friend to scold your child..it isnt an issue that requires your discipline, just a gentle reminder to respect someones space...

[Tal45]

I wonder if something has happened that you're not aware of? If she was previously always encouraging kissing why has she now freaked out about it. I wonder if someone else told her she shouldn't be encouraging her daughter to kiss everyone as it could leave her vulnerable to abuse - or something along those lines - and now she's really worried about it.
You could just ask her if something has happened because you and your son didn't think she had a problem with hugs and kisses.

[pollylocketpickedapocket]

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I can see why she was upset.

You should have taught him about SD and not kissing anyone outside the household because of germs.

He’s 3 you silly mare.

[NotSorry]

I think I'd have picked my child and things up and walked straight out of her house after her speaking to your child like that. I agree with PPs you need to rethink this friendship.

[bookworm34]

Yeah... I'd not be bothering with the friend until she seeks help for her aniexty. Massive over reaction and she doesn't sound like much of a friend letting you down.

[DuchessHastings]

@Winkle2020

Exactly as some of you said, I was wondering what would she do when her dd goes to school. At the moment it looks like they never let her deal with the situation by herself rather trying to protect her in every way. Its really complicated to deal with these issues. I think after some point in life you cannot be closer to anyone except family. I also want to add, we have moved this country 10 years ago so limited friends and no family

@Winkle2020
I wouldn't shout at my own 3yr old let alone anyone else's but of course at 2yrs you protect them she's not ready to deal with school situations which is why she's not at school.

[Shetoshe]

Her reaction was OTT obviously, but even at three I'd be teaching your DC to ask the other person if they want a kiss - especially since he's a boy. I taught my children that from the get go, mostly by modelling, asking them if I could give them a kiss instead of just grabbing them and planting one (tempting though it is!).

There was a little boy in my DDs preschool who would grab all the girls for hugs and kisses all the time. His mum and even the teacher encouraged it with lots of "awwwws" despite many of the children being clearly uncomfortable with it. He was a cute little guy but it was setting a shitty precedent. I didn't like when he'd do it to my DD, I didn't react like your friend but I must admit I felt like it sometimes!

[littlepattilou]

@NameChangedForThisFeb21

She overreacted but it’s quite understandable. She’s terrified and you’re a bit too laid back. You need to strike a happy medium.

This. ^

I also agree @Winkle2020 that you should not be teaching your son to go around kissing everyone. Sounds mad, and PC, and a bit OTT I agree, but that's the way of the world I'm afraid. Also not acceptable with covid around right now.

A little boy who we knew when DD was 5 and he was 3, used to run up to DD and give her a peck on the cheek when we saw him, and then he ran to me to give me one. It was adorable, and we didn't mind at all.

I don't think I would have reacted like your friend did, but as some posters have said, she was not unreasonable to have been pissed off/stressed about it.

[littlepattilou]

This was 20 years ago by the way. ^

[HoppingPavlova]

and in an angry tone says to my ds "it's a bad habit to push or jump, or kiss, it's a bad behaviour

I’m getting the feel that without being there it’s hard to get a real sense. Was your child pushing her child and jumping on her child or other things? You said the kissing occurred but why did she also single out pushing and jumping? If these things did occur, how long had they been going on for before she lost it? If these things did occur did you say anything to correct your child’s behaviour before her outburst?

[Littlepaws18]

Wow I'm quite shocked at some of the responses on here. He's a 3 year old boy!!! He doesn't realise boundaries yet he is still learning. Which is why your friends reaction is so out of order. It's abusive to scream at a 3 year old boy, lack of control is never a way to enforce discipline. He must feel very confused and upset by the incident. First and foremost I would protect my child. I would either confront the situation with your friend and say whilst I accept that this is a boundary for you, it's absolutely not acceptable to treat my child in that manner. Otherwise I'd just drift away. Your son's best interests should be your key priority not patching it up with your friend (not meaning you are doing this btw) As for the comments about appropriate affection, this will come in time, it is one of his forms of communication and he will learn in time through reinforcement via you what is and isn't acceptable. My daughter is a hugger she will hug anyone who comes across as friendly. Whilst I don't want her to change her kind personality over the years we have had discussions on who it's safe to hug and who not. She is 6 now and has a much better grasp of boundaries but still hugs those she loves!

[Xerochrysum]

Agree with Hopping. It's odd that according to your OP, she reacted OTT with kissing, but pushing and jumping comes before telling your ds not to kiss her. Maybe she was holding back, and exploded after seeing him kissing her?

[ktp100]

She's clearly incredibly anxious about Covid & knowing that she hasn't allowed her child to go to nursery/parks etc throughout lockdown/ refused to have your child in her home due to covid etc means that obviously she wasn't going to like a child kissing hers at the moment.

It was an over reaction but of course it's not a good idea for kids to be in close proximity like that from different households at the moment.

I agree that it's not a great idea to teach kids to be affectionate with others apart from close family. School will tell them to stop that anyway, they discourage it from reception.

[LilMidge01]

@Radio4Rocks

Unbelievable amount of ridiculous hysteria here about normal toddler behaviour.

Consent? He's 3 years old for fuck's sake. Grips all round, people. Time enough for that when he's old enough to understand the concept.

Drop this friend, OP, she's toxic. I'd have dropped her after her refusing to look after your child when you were in labour. She clearly has issues.

I don't think 3 years old is too young to understand basics. We're not talking adult levels of understanding. Things like acceptable behaviour are taught throughout, just ramped up when they get older.

You surely ask a 3 year old "can I have a hug?" before you hug them/pick them up etc. Before that age, you might scoop them up a bit more, but at that age, if they're not your child, you ask permission. Therefore, you are teaching them consent and it is not unreasonable to expect them to do the same with non-immediate family. or at least when they don't, you would expect the mother to say something like "Timmy, remember we don't just kiss people without asking as they might not like it". Nothing complex or hand wringing or 'hysteria'. Just basic, like teaching manners to say 'thank you' etc.

I would imagine the friend is more upset that OP did nothing to that effect/gave a gentle reminder but seems to be actively encouraging it.

3 is about the age I made that transition with my godson. He is a little person now (4) and although we are very close and kiss and hug all the time (not in pandemic), I never assume and will ask rather than just manhandle him and kiss him.

[Running20]

I disagree with @FortunesFave, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a child showing affection. What a sad world we are becoming if this is what we have come to. In the world I live in, if and when a child kisses another child or adult for that matter, the only reactions I've seen are coos, smiles, aahhhs or even laughter. My advice is to have a frank, even if difficult conversation with your friend. Ask her what triggered such a strong reaction from her and why she even felt the need to admonish your child when you were right there. She should have spoken to you and in a nice way, certainly in private. Explain your perspective and let her know she hurt your feelings. As for her letting you down after she had committed to helping you out at the time of your delivery, bring that up at the end as a PS rather than part of the same issue. Otherwise the issues get mixed up and in the end it may sound like you just venting because you are hurt rather than seriously addressing an issue. In your heart of hearts, am sure you know whether she's the type of friend you want to keep or not, but when it comes to children, I wouldn't let someone who feels it's ok to shout at a child that young anywhere near my child. When my ds was 2yo, there was a similar age little girl at his nursery who at the beginning of everyday, would always rush to hug and kiss him. I found this adorable even if my son would shy away from the attention. I just thought it was funny. With time, he started running away from the girl whenever he saw him coming. It never even occurred to me that some people would interpret this behaviour as anything other than innocent affection. And no, my ds wasn't traumatised by it. He just didn't like the attention and that was that. He's older now and we laugh about it but he doesn't remember it at all even if he's just a few years older than when it happened. At the end of the day, I think adults inadvertently project their own traumas and experiences onto children and other people's experiences and in turn spoil what are genuinely innocent moments. Let children be children, afterall their childhood doesn't last long whereas adulthood lasts forever.

[Winkle2020]

So there has been some occasions were my ds pushed her while fighting for toys. All those times myself and my husband has stopped him and explained him not to do that. We have also tried to soothe her daughter
But I thought this is normal at this age, never took it too serious. I understand now that may be we are too laid back and not every other parent is. I say this because, I know many parents ask their children not to jump on the bed or couch but I never do that.may be I am really wrong in this but I always thought it's ok for him to enjoy jumping around. Honestly I still dont know why that is not right. When her dd came to my house she jumped on my couch and never said anything. I was infact enjoying both playing together happily.

I think she added jumping and pushing along for these reasons

I am not sure if she was concerned about covid because they are our support bubble as we have a child under 6 months

[jessycake]

Time to find a new friend I think , I very much doubt she will allow you to disipline her child when she is three for something you don't like.

[Xerochrysum]

I don't mind my child jumping on bed in our house when I'm watching.. I wouldn't let my child do that at someone else's house. Also I wouldn't let other children do it in my house either, since I have to take responsibility if they get injured.

[Shinyletsbebadguys]

I wouldn't tolerate anyone speaking to my ds in an angry way , especially if I'm there. She was certainly being unreasonable.

Ds2 is a particularly affectionate child bit we have taught him about consent (obviously in child centric terms we don't use the word consent) because in fairness whilst I think its cute its a behaviour that impacts others so its not relevant whether you "understand " it , if it impacts someone else you do need to consider teaching a level of boundaries. We teach ds2 to ask before hugs and kisses etc. Its less overt with us but we do teach that when we say stop it means stop (he's remarkably strong for a 5 year old and a hug can turn into a headlock !).

I would not spend time with that friend again she completely overreacted and you don't angrily speak to someone else's child. However you do come across as a bit faux wide eyed about why people might not want your dc to kiss without permission. I'm not convinced you really don't understand why.

[Meowchickameowmeow]

You need to start caring that your son pushes and fights other children for toys and jumps on the furniture. Can you honestly not see that that behaviour is not acceptable?
It sounds like she'd had enough of your son being rough and just lost it, I'm sorry she shouted at your son but you need to step in and stop his behaviour when he's causing distress to someone else.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

Yes the friend was OTT it quite honestly your children are never too young to be taught about boundaries and consent. I think it's especially important for boys to know. I don't allow my 2 to kiss anybody except me

[nancywhitehead]

[quote Winkle2020]@HoppingPavlova

What she did was exactly like below

Dd's mum sees my ds give a kiss to her dd, screams at first then walks there takes her child (I also went in to intervene and to check what happened) and in an angry tone says to my ds "it's a bad habit to push or jump, or kiss, it's a bad behaviour, understand? Then she runs upstairs with her dd which for me looked like as if my ds was assaulting her and she needs to be taken away.

I then was telling my ds not to do these and then she comes back looking upset[/quote]
This is such a huge overreaction. I'm not surprised you were shocked and upset by it.

Your child did nothing wrong, this other woman sounds bonkers and hysterical. I do wonder if something happened to her in the past and she is projecting onto her daughter and being overprotective.

Either way, it is not your problem. Don't let it get to you - ignore it and move on. In your situation I think I would even have had a word with this other woman about the way she treated your son - he must have been very confused by the whole thing!

[ArcheryAnnie]

Be strong in standing for what you think, because a 3 year old giving a kiss is not bad behaviour, you clearly know that. People who think otherwise aren’t right in the head

A three year old giving a kiss to another kid isn't a bad kid. Nobody thinks that. But not every other kid will want a kiss, and it's right to start teaching a three year old that it isn't appropriate to just rush up and plant a smacker on any other kid he feels like.

A three year old doesn’t understand what a pandemic is. Not to mention that covid is unlikely to even give them anything much more than a cold

Most children won't have serious complications from catching covid. Many or most may even be completely asymptomatic. But the point about children with covid is that they are carriers, and who they carry it to may become seriously ill.

[ArcheryAnnie]

However it isnt up to your friend to scold your child

ICantBeAssed if there's two children playing together, and a problem happens, it's entirely appropriate for either parent present to intevene.

What do you think will happen when the OP's DS is at nursery? Or at a playdate without her being there? Other people will step in to deal with any problems, and characterising it as "scolding", which only the OP should only every be allowed to do, is ridiculous.