Pay cleaner when she's sick?

[SantaMonicaPier]

This is a tricky one as we don't have a contract with her which I would address for a future cleaner.

We paid her in full during the several months last year when she didn't clean due to CV19.

Since then she's missed a week here and there due to sickness. Each time we have already paid her via advance bank transfer and she has made no reference at all to carrying the payment over or refunding the payment.

She's ill again and I'm now wondering whether to address this as in the last year we've probably ended up paying double for the weeks we have received a clean due to the weeks we paid and she didn't come.

Would be interested in thoughts thanks.

I wouldn't. I did pay during covid when she didn't come, but cleaners don't expect to be paid when they're ill.

I don’t.

If you were ill then I think the payment is reasonable. I think it's naughty she's not acknowledged the overpayment for when she has been ill especially if there is not a contract in place. As you said going forward get that contract in place so everyone is clear of the expectations.

Pay her? I'd sack her.

Do you employ the cleaner OP - so pay PAYE etc more like a housekeeper? She would then have employment rights, redundancy, maternity, holiday pay etc.

Most cleaners are self employed as they have many jobs, generally set their own hours etc. If which case they set the terms and conditions, so would give you a contract (rather than the other way round). In which case you wouldn't usually pay sick pay as it's an employee benefit.

Personally, I'd stop the standing order and just transfer weekly when she turns up. It sounds like she's taking the mick!

You have paid her for seven months in full? And now she keeps saying she is 'ill'. You are being taken for a ride op.

Cancel the standing order and pay her when she works, and only when she works. She must be laughing as I am sure she continued to work when you paid her to stay at home, therefore doubling her income overnight with only half the hours!

I would find a new cleaner, someone reliable and honest.

New cleaner!

I think she sounds flaky. I've probably had on average one day a year off work sick & I would get paid regardless. I don't think she's reliable for you.

I paid my dog walker all March-July but then she never came back and she let me down first week back at school. She never thanked me but did say hardly anyone else paid.

I wonder if her sickness would suddenly disappear if you stopped paying her when shes sick....

Nope! I'm sorry but I I wouldn't be paying. I also think it was very generous of you to pay her in full during the first lockdown. She's taking the mick now me thinks.....🙁

No. Don't pay her.

I'm self employed and would never expect to be paid if I'm sick or can't work for some reason. That's part of working for yourself, unfortunately.

She should be charging enough to cover her own sick days, holiday etc.

With our cleaner if she can’t come because of an issue her end we don’t pay her, if she can’t come because of an issue our end we pay her. We are both happy with this arrangement. Only exception was during the first lockdown when she wasn’t allowed to come, when we paid half to make sure our spot was reserved. She didn’t ask and was very grateful.

You need a new cleaner, and you also need to let her know you suspect you’re being taken for a tide, so she’s not tempted to try it on her next customer as well.

I know of so many cleaners who have taken the piss (including my own, who spent the four figures we’d paid her over lockdown taking a 6 week holiday in her home country, and then returned to raise her already high rate to one equivalent to a nurse’s, and in the current environment, unaffordable for me).

They’re not employees (neither am I) and that has advantages and disadvantages. Unpaid sick leave is one of the disadvantages so tell her she needs to plan accordingly in future.

@Unfucked - I don’t understand why you think your cleaner spending her money on a trip home is taking the piss? If you didn’t think she was owed the money you shouldn’t have paid. Once you’ve paid it’s hers to do what she wants with.

Her rate is also hers to set, if you can’t afford it then find a cheaper cleaner. If she has overpriced her services then market forces will show her that.

I don't think I would... We paid our cleaner half rate over lockdown.
then over Christmas he missed 2 sessions as his father died, and we paid for one but not the other, and he tried to refund the money the next time he came (but we refused).
in several years he's never missed one before, has taken holidays but given a few weeks notice.

Yours sounds flaky and is taking the piss tbh. Can you start paying after she comes so you can cancel it if she doesn't show up?

That’s a fair point, @TitusPullo, but I’m not rich and I thought I was being charitable to continue paying her. If she could afford a 6 week foreign holiday she clearly didn’t need the money and should have told me so, so I could have donated it to a more deserving cause. Don’t forget this was not earned money.

If you think a cleaner should be paid more than a nurse, and that’s fine. I disagree.

She’s rinsing you for money. She has been paid for double the work she’s done. Rather than not paying her for the work she hasn’t done, you need to sack her. The reason is dishonourable character. You can’t let someone like that in your home, regardless of the amounts of the payments/not.

@Unfucked - your income is irrelevant, a cleaner is not a necessity. Give over, I why should she be giving up income so you could donate to charity. What a bizarre mentality. You shouldn’t have paid her. You did and she spent it. She did nothing wrong here.

And I didn’t say anything about whether she deserved her rate. I said it is hers to set as a private contractor. Lots of professions earn more than a nurse. Many not as “worthy”. What is your point? At the moment you are coming across as being pretty snobby towards cleaners. Just because they have chosen to clean to earn income doesn’t make them any less than you, or a nurse or anyone else. They can go on holiday and charge as much as they like. If no one chooses to pay that, they will have to reassess.

“You shouldn’t have paid her.”

Too fucking right, @TitusPullo.

I thought I was doing the right thing, being loyal and supportive to my cleaner of six years, and had it thrown back in my face.

Know a few people who have had similar with their cleaners, and the merry-go-round of new customers really hasn’t helped them - you’re not going to pay a cleaner who’s only just started working with you their full whack for doing nothing.

I paid my cleaner when she has been unable to come due to restrictions. That was my choice as she is not my employee, but I didn't lose money through restrictions so was happy to continue (if I'd been furloughed, things may have been different).

Luckily she has never called in sick but if she did, I'd probably treat it in a similar way that I do in work - 3 times in a year is acceptable. No more than that.

@Unfucked - if you ever get a cleaner in the future please reassess your mentality. They are not charity cases that need your pity, they do not owe you anything over and above a business relationship, they are providing a service. Respect the boundaries and get over this Lady Bountiful position you’ve put yourself in.

@TitusPullo would you not be charitable to someone you’d known for six years. She didn’t “earn” this money - I gave it to her.

If it was a business relationship pure and simple, why did she take the money? It wasn’t as if she’d earned it.

I won’t be having another cleaner as I’ve realised it was all a huge waste of money. .

I thought I was doing the right thing, being loyal and supportive to my cleaner of six years, and had it thrown back in my face.

It was her choice to go on holiday with her money, it was your choice to pay her. She can set her rates and people will pay or not, she doesn’t owe you anything.