Pay cleaner when she's sick?

[SantaMonicaPier]

This is a tricky one as we don't have a contract with her which I would address for a future cleaner.

We paid her in full during the several months last year when she didn't clean due to CV19.

Since then she's missed a week here and there due to sickness. Each time we have already paid her via advance bank transfer and she has made no reference at all to carrying the payment over or refunding the payment.

She's ill again and I'm now wondering whether to address this as in the last year we've probably ended up paying double for the weeks we have received a clean due to the weeks we paid and she didn't come.

Would be interested in thoughts thanks.

It was my choice to pay her, and so my conscience is clear.

Coming back after spaffing my generous show of support and asking for £16ph when she knew I was struggling was cheeky fuckery. I suspect her conscience isn’t quite so clear.

@Unfucked - she took the money because you gave it to her? Employed or Self Employed, if your employer/customer gave you extra money, you’d take it (assuming they weren’t vulnerable etc). I really don’t understand your mentality here. Either you view your cleaner as a charity case who should live a hand to mouth existence, or you offered her money to test her loyalty to you? Neither is a good look.

Personally I view my cleaner as great value for money. She’s been cleaning for me for 4 years. Pre-covid we’d often have a chat/coffee when she was done but I don’t for a second expect loyalty from her other than her not to steal from me obviously.

@TitusPullo Do you think you may be just a little over-invested in other people’s domestic arrangements?

@Unfucked - no, but I am over invested in wanting people to not view others as beneath them it seems.

We paid our cleaner in full over lockdown and instead of thanks, I got an earful about how it messed up her universal credit or benefits claim and she’s now having to pay money back and doesn’t have it. Talk about damned if you do / damned if you don’t!

Our cleaner is very good and never takes time off sick, so if she did I'd pay her - specifically because she doesn't take the piss. She's also properly insured and pays tax and sends us a bill, (where we live we can claim the tax element against our own income tax, for which we need the bill...) We also paid her 90% during the first lockdown when she didn't clean - she has emergency child care now and is allowed to clean.

I wouldn't pay someone who appeared to be taking off time "sick" in inverted commas almost every second week! Our cleaner charges the same per hour as I earn and I wouldn't be chucking money at someone who took me for a mug by pulling sickies.

@underneaththeash has given an excellent answer.

@EuroTrashed Wow that’s awful. I hope she isn’t your cleaner any more!

We don’t pay ours when she is sick, but do if we ask her not to come (holidays for example). We also paid in full over the first lockdown but we’ve had her for years and I would be lost without her.

I don't pay mine if she can't come as ill but we just re-arrange for later date.

I did pay during lockdown and she comes as normal during my holidays.

Currently she cones and we go for a long walk and then hide in the bedroom.

I wouldn't. She's not your employee she's self employed. I am employed and my employer would only give me about a weeks leave on full pay for sickness I think.

And I would ask for the money back if it's already gone through.

Only on Mumsnet could you give someone four figures for doing nothing, and be the bad guy. .

Good luck, @SantaMonicaPier. I’m saving so much money not having a cleaner now, and the house doesn’t seem to be suffering for it.

@ireallyamthewalrus actually I seem to be stuck in a highly dysfunctional relationship with her, so yes, she’s still my cleaner and she’s still taking the extraordinary puss in all sorts of things. But, you know. Eight years and the kids really like her 😬 (it does of course now take twice the time to do half the job OH GOD I am a mug)

I do wonder what drives people to take the piss with their clients and their employers, especially just now. New jobs are not going to be easy to be find. Why not just do as you would be done by?

This is why I now use a cleaning company, as opposed to an individual cleaner. They can just send someone else out, if your usual cleaner is indisposed.

When my cleaner was unwell on my usual day (migraine) she suggested an alternative day. If I cancel her got any reason I pay if she cancels me I don't pay but allow her to make up missed hours if she wants to.

No but I wouldn’t have paid any weeks she didn’t clean for. That’s the risk of being self employed but it has many perks.

I pay by monthly dd. If they can’t make it on a certain day (for any reason - we aren’t set in stone) then they make up the hours on another week. This works for us as there’s plenty to do so 5 extra hours one week can always be used somewhere. But I can understand this won’t suit cleaners who have a full weekly timetable of other jobs.

We also paid in full over lockdown when cleaning wasn’t allowed, then when it resumed had some full days deep cleaning, although I didn’t count up hours or anything.

I suspect she's taking the mick now as she knows you'll pay her regardless.

If she's having several sick days then it's not unreasonable to change to a more reliable cleaner with a proper contract where what to do is stated out clearly.

In my own professional role (and most other jobs) any more than 3 episodes of sickness in a certain time period is monitored and dealt with via disciplinary.

I dont agree with this particularly as genuine sickness cannot be helped but such rules are in place to prevent piss taking.

Thanks all. I suspect she is taking advantage now and useful to have objective views. I think we may need to cancel her even though that will be an awkward conversation.

Make sure you’ve got your keys back first!