nursery - children outside all day in the snow

[jlm122]

I just wondered if any other nurseries are doing this.

Children playing outside all day, on warmer days not a problem but today it's snowed all day, i collected DD and she didn't have her gloves on, her hands were freezing she could barely move them, got her home and got her wetsuit off and her sleeves were wet and cold i'm assuming from hand washing. Feet were freezing, the nursery put a statement out a few weeks ago asking parents not to ask staff to take the children inside as they can't due to COVID.

I don't feel this is right but on the other hand i'm a key worker so need to send her, she's settled and will be starting school in September so i'm not sure if moving her to a different nursery would be the best thing for her.

Absolute BS.

Oh op, your poor DD. I hope the visit on Thursday goes well.

My DDs are in primary school, they have been having more outdoor play time (which I fully support) but yesterday I don't think they went out (despite having wellies, hats, gloves etc). I think the wind made it feel -5 degrees here.

That response was also very unprofessional too.

I know of a nursery keeping children outside all day, every day ‘because of covid’. No idea if they still are in this weather. Most nurseries are operating pretty much as normal, this approach is crazy.

I would tell her I don't accept her answer, I don't accept that she's upholding her duty of care to children or staff, and I'm withdrawing my child and reporting her to Ofsted.

Boris keeps chanting the mantra that schools are safe. Not that I believe him 100%, but there is a middle ground. Is anyone proposing all lessons should be taught outside? Are they bollocks.

The woman had a screw loose. The fact that she's trying to guilt trip you with a legitimate complaint, minimising it, and then adding a further layer of guilt with the oodles of people who have died in early years settings because of people like you... lady, please.

She's moved into smaller premises from what I gather, reduced cleaning duties to a minimum, and be pays minimum fuel bills, by throwing all of the kids in her care outside. My child wouldn't set foot in there again after that email. I wouldn't just go to Ofsted, I'd have her in the papers. Arsehole.

Out little nursery has been running in and outdoors since the star of all this, bubble, built a new sensory room and invested in the place despite the downturn, and still have had no covid cases, because they actually give a shit about the children in their care. She's a joke.

@Hardbackwriter

Also the outdoor nurseries I'm familiar with just operate quite differently - as I said, DS's nursery also runs a forest school but it runs 9-3 not 7.30-6 like the main nursery, and it also has a minimum age of 3. They do also have a yurt, so while they don't use the main building they do have some shelter. A specially designed outdoor nursery is quite different to just only using the outside of a conventional nursery.

Exactly. It takes a lot more than just closing the indoor space to be an all day outdoor nursery. A nursey set up with this specifically in mind is a world away from what the OPs current nursery are providing.

Please get this out op. This is abuse of vulnerable children.

The press
Social services
Ofsted

There is a big difference between being predominantly outside and being chucked out permanently with no assessment as to balance of risk. They need to have some common sense to know when being predominantly outside isn’t sensible. For example, our nursery run a forest school. My daughter has had sessions cancelled due to high winds because it wouldn’t be sensible to have 15 toddlers out with a risk of falling trees.

The outdoor pre-school we have used had an amazing set-up with lots of protection from the elements. The outdoor space at a normal nursery may not be designed in the same way. It has also been freezing. My little one lasted 45 minutes a few weekends ago when it snowed. My eldest is quite hardy and managed most of the day outside but she came in for regular breaks to warm up, change her gloves over etc.

Wow. Just read your update with the reply from the manager. Our nursery is mainly indoors currently. We do go out every day, but yesterday after 20 minutes the staff and children had had enough and came back in to warm up. The windows are kept open inside with radiators on and it’s warm and comfortable. No known cases amongst staff or children as yet, although obviously could have been cases where a test wasn’t taken.

I would be getting contact information for as many parents as possible and asking how many of them are actually happy to be sending their children in. Also trying to gauge the opinions of the staff on drop off / collection (if your DD was still going in). Our staff would be planning a mass walk out if we were stuck outside all day.

I would withdraw my child on the grounds of that reply, they are basically trying to guilt trip you/scare you into agreeing.

Just seen your update from the nursery. That is absolutely shocking! Your poor DD.

You should send this from worksmart.
I doubt if her staff are properly protected.

However, this doesn't mean that people who work outside are totally unprotected from the extremes of the UK climate. Under Health and Safety regulations, your employer owes you a duty of care. This means that they are responsible for ensuring you don't have to work in unsafe or unhealthy conditions. Continuing to work in extreme cold could well constitute a breach of this duty of care.

Extra risk assessments should be carried out during extreme weather, to make sure workers' health and safety are not put at risk. These should focus not just on the outside air temperature, but also on the wind chill factor. Strong winds can make it feel bitterly cold in the open air in the UK.

Your employer must ensure appropriate protective equipment is issued and that where necessary, warm and dry mobile facilities, and regular hot drinks are available.

Rest breaks should be more frequent, and long enough to allow you to warm up properly. When it comes to personal protective equipment (PPE) remember that feet and toes are particularly susceptible to cold injury. Appropriate protection of the hands is also important not only to prevent injury, but also to maintain dexterity and prevent accidents.

So she personally knows 'many settings where families are now grieving due to parents of young families dying'?

I wish you could call her out on that one. I am 41 and DH and I are the oldest parents by some way at our nursery. This implies that the woman personally knows multiple other nurseries where parents in their 20s or 30s with no predicting health conditions have died of Covid. (You wouldn't use a nursery if extremely vulnerable.) How plausible is that?

There were 42 people in that age group with no pre-existing conditions who died of covid (up to end Dec as per statistics). In the entire Many of them will not have had children. Of those with children, most will not have had children at nursery.

You would have to know thousands of nurseries to know of many parents who have died of Covid. (Also the implicit suggestion that the nursery was responsible for the transmission, when these parents might have worked in a higher risk job, eg in a hospital, as a bus driver etc.) She's bullshitting you in a fairly despicable way by trying to make you feel guilty about the fact that she can't be bothered to implement proper safety procedures.

Please please remove your child and report her!

That email is shocking. I’m generally quite laid back but i think j would be calling ofsted at this point.

I suspect that they’ve talked to other nurseries who are saying that they’re outside ‘as much as possible’- and they’re using that to justify keeping the kids out all day.

You’ve had a fairly wide ‘survey’ response on here from parents of pre-schoolers, and not one of our settings has responded to the pandemic like this. The only people who say their children are out all day seem to have signed up for that with a specialist forest school. You and your child did not choose this. It’s insanity.

The only people who say their children are out all day seem to have signed up for that with a specialist forest school.

From what I understand from talking to friends with children at a forest nursery, a lot of them either aren't running at the moment or they've moved to their indoor locations. This is because they consider it too cold for the children to be outside all the time at the moment even with proper kit and high staff to children ratios.

@hopsalong I'm 23 so I think the 'young families' part of the email was directly aimed at me, I'm on a 12 hour shift today but tomorrow i'll be ringing to report her because this is so so wrong

This is so bad.

Her emails are really unprofessional as well. I don't know any manager that would respond like that. How bizarre.

Will be watching for your update! Totally nuts.

My nursery is a farm nursery and the children are in and out all day. They have only had three positive cases since October last year which is very good. I would be really concerned that their only solution is to have children outside all day. Where do they nap?

It really is bitterly cold at the moment. I'd have no problem with children freely coming in and out as they wish and encouraging time outside but it just isn't acceptable to force children to remain outside for a full day. They must be absolutely frozen.

I'd put money on her most recent email being a pack of lies. I think her scaremongering is so unprofessional and actually quite dangerous.

Maybe she has extreme anxiety herself about covid which is very sad but shouldn't affect her professional responsibilities and duty of care to her staff and children.

Definitely report to Ofsted with copies of emails attached. It's all very wrong, poor children.

How did you get on OP?

Yes please update us OP

Hope all is ok OP, I honestly was thinking of this thread yesterday because it was SO COLD, me and my toddler were out for a walk and she was in a thousand layers and even 45 mins outside froze her, so I was thinking of the poor kids at your nursery

This has also been in my head a lot. Hope you got somewhere OP.