nursery - children outside all day in the snow

[jlm122]

I just wondered if any other nurseries are doing this.

Children playing outside all day, on warmer days not a problem but today it's snowed all day, i collected DD and she didn't have her gloves on, her hands were freezing she could barely move them, got her home and got her wetsuit off and her sleeves were wet and cold i'm assuming from hand washing. Feet were freezing, the nursery put a statement out a few weeks ago asking parents not to ask staff to take the children inside as they can't due to COVID.

I don't feel this is right but on the other hand i'm a key worker so need to send her, she's settled and will be starting school in September so i'm not sure if moving her to a different nursery would be the best thing for her.

Just report it to ofsted. It's a safeguarding issue and it is not following government guidelines

@ALemonEntryDearWatson the only safe guarding issue is the op not providing adequate clothing for her child.

@MyDcAreMarvel so her having cold wet sleeves is not a safeguarding issue and is all my own fault?

Hi
A lot of nurserys do this now.
I went for an interview a few years ago in the winter , I'd had problems getting there due to the snow and I was shown around ( freezing as I hadn't worn my boots as I didn't want the awkwardness of trying to get them in and off during interview ) the kids were outside and we're still out there an hour and half later when I left .

I've found a picture of the exact wetsuit she has, she wears this with a vest, long sleeve t-shirt, and a thicker jumper. Plus x2 pairs of fluffy socks, hat scarf and gloves

so her having cold wet sleeves is not a safeguarding issue and is all my own fault?

Well it depends. Having wet sleeves in and of itself is not a safeguarding issue. And if there were no spare clothes provided then that isn't the nurseries fault. It's also impossible to prevent children getting wet sleeves.

However, failing to ensure a child is adequately dressed, is allowed to get cold to a risk of hypothermia is a safeguarding risk. Whether it is the nursery or the parent who is the perpetrator will be dependent on the set up. E.g. at an exclusively outdoor nursery which provides an exhaustive kit list, and this was not adhered to by the parent, the parent is responsible.

In your case, I'd say the nursery is responsible due to it not providing an appropriate kit list and not notifying you that your child wasn't appropriately provided for.

Absolutely insane. My DD's nursery play outside a lot but they spend a lot of time indoors as well.

I'd move her. It's not safe for her to be cold and wet all day.

@Updatemate she has two sets of spare clothes in her bag

@jlm122 It's there in black and white - they've gone back on what they said. What you're sending her in sounds reasonable, because she shouldn't be outside all day in this weather. I wouldn't get drawn by PP, obviously just spoiling for an argument. As the vast majority have said, anyone in their right mind would be averse to their child being out all day in this weather, particularly with them getting wet under their clothes. All the thermals in the world won't help that.

And actually, perhaps it wouldn't have been such a bad thing to let DH go back and speak to them at the time. I would have been pretty cross too. But the problem with that is, you have no paper trail. You do now, and it shows they've gone back on their word.

@jlm122

I imagine the type of thermals that id need to keep her warm in below freezing temperatures for 8 hours would be quite expensive

Tell you what @jlm122, why dont you layer up and spend all day outdoors today , then you'll get a feel for what you're putting your child through.

@Updatemate

Well it depends. Having wet sleeves in and of itself is not a safeguarding issue. And if there were no spare clothes provided then that isn't the nurseries fault. It's also impossible to prevent children getting wet sleeves.

Such a concrete statement stating that wet sleeves itself isn't a safe-guarding issue. The children are OUTSIDE ALL DAY with no option to go inside (apart from lunch but in a small room with door wide open). It's isn't a forest school it's a normal nursery. How are they meeting the EYFS requirements if they're outside all day freezing cold.

It is a safe guarding issue when a child is wet, the weather is freezing and they haven't dried and changed them.

All nurseries keep spare clothes.

From that message, they’ve lied to you op or at the very least updated their policy without making the parents aware. I would get on the phone to follow up the email. They’re going to be monumentally slow and act like you’re just another griping parent if you don’t push.

Do you speak to any of the other mums OP? If I was you I'd be interested to know their thoughts. Maybe put an open ended question on the WhatsApp group if you have one.

Personally I would also be writing an email and contacting OFSED.

Oh and if you call, talk about buzz words like safe guarding the children and ask about the child and carer risk assessments as well as their policy for checking the children’s clothes etc.

If my nursery has an issue with clothing they tell the parents! For example, if they're out in the sun, parents have to leave a hat and sunscreen. They don't take them anyway and just let them burn!

Don't take any notice OP.

I would be furious and very upset if my child's nursery had allowed them to get that cold. It's a bonkers policy for a normal nursery during freezing weather.

That is terrible! I took mine out yesterday for half an hour and both were freezing and wanted to come home (they are nursery age). Mine wouldn't cope outside all day in these conditions. I couldn't cope outside in these conditions. Surely the staff find it unbearable too? My son's nursery are always inside.

I did mention in the email that it's also unfair on the staff having to work in those conditions, she's due in tomorrow but DH is going to take the day off work and stay home with her and will do until something is sorted out

@MyDcAreMarvel that's categorically untrue. Please point the OP in the direction of the government covid directive which instructs that nursery aged children are to remain outside in minus degree conditions for the duration the the day?

Op glad to see you are following your instincts on this one. Always do that. Some parents might be fine with their small children being outside all day. Most wouldn't.

failing to ensure a child is adequately dressed, is allowed to get cold to a risk of hypothermia is a safeguarding risk. Whether it is the nursery or the parent who is the perpetrator will be dependent on the set up. E.g. at an exclusively outdoor nursery which provides an exhaustive kit list, and this was not adhered to by the parent, the parent is responsible.

I agree that the parent needs to provide the right kit, but the nursery should refuse to take the child/send them home if there's a safety issue rather than leave the child at risk. Most nurseries have spare clothing anyway which they can use and then have a word with the parents later. When my DS started at his present nursery, I had to buy him new boots with a thermal lining as the staff were concerned that (despite thermal socks) his toes might become cold after a couple of hours outside. It was made clear to me that they wouldn't take him without the right kit when the weather became colder. But I would have thought that a thermal base layer, thermal hat, gloves and scarf and lined boots would be an absolute minimum for parents to provide if the child is going to be outside most of the winter. They don't have to be very expensive either. Sports Direct do thermal layers for a few pounds or you can get two long sleeved tops on Amazon for around £6-£8 (although ideally you'd have the bottoms as well).

In order for outdoor nurseries to work, both the setting and the parents have to be on board with the concept - it's not something that should simply be imposed on the parents and carried out half-heartedly by the staff, otherwise the children will suffer as they won't be correctly equipped or monitored.

Wet sleeves is a safeguarding issue? Really?

Is this what the world has come to for our kids?

is allowed to get cold to a risk of hypothermia

Nobody got hypothermia from wet sleeves

Wet sleeves indoors in the warmth = uncomfortable but not a big issue.

Wet sleeves outdoors in -7 windchill = safeguarding issue.

Of course you can get mild hypothermia from wet clothes on the skin, especially a small child that are in them for prolonged periods. The OP said that described how her child's fingers were numb and cold, this is very worrying.