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Original poster

One visit to church has made me realise I'm no longer even a luke warm Christian.

85 replies

StartupRepair · 31/01/2021 05:03

DH has started attending a uniting church near us and has been quite enjoying it. He asked me to come to a service today with him. (In Australia not in lockdown). I'm raised Anglican, agnostic, care about social justice and would think I have values that align with Christianity.
To my horror the minister's sermon was about the terrible modern age we live in, where inclusion and diversity are everything and people are pro abortion and euthanasia. He said that it was not fair that people who oppose same sex marriage were treated as Nazis. Real Christians, he said, help to set the moral tone and don't just go along with what is socially fashionable.
I didn't walk out as I didn't want to embarrass DH but I hated it. I felt so alienated, when I had really gone along with an open mind and hoped to connect with a holy feeling and enjoy the music.
Has DH just fallen with a very hard line group or is this still the teaching of the church?

OP posts:
Finfintytint · 31/01/2021 05:17

Welcome to Christianity. One stop shop for bigotry and hate.

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 05:29

I think you found the worst church possible.

I’ve slowly been church shopping over the last three years. I come from a background of various Protestant denominations and some Judaism, but have been agnostic/atheist since my late teens.

I started thinking about rules to live by and the Judeo-Christian tradition and cultural Christianity and began to try different places out now I’ve hit my 40s. I haven’t come across anything condemnatory or bigoted at all. It was quite a relief. (I for example remember it always being emphasised in church thirty years ago that marriage was “between one man and one woman”. I’ve heard none of that in my recent forays.)

Basically my personal “rules” are to avoid Evangelicals or Catholics at all costs (sorry to any offended Es/Cs but that is how I weed out the extremes), thoroughly read the church website for clues about clergy attitude, inclusivity and info about what practical community projects they do (soup kitchens, refugee outreach, food bank or similar always a good sign), then I go along and try a morning service one Sunday.

Still haven’t settled on one mind. Smile Covid interrupted me.

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 05:31

First, though, get your DH away from those hideous neo-Nazi people. Are they an official church in Australia?

Original poster
StartupRepair · 31/01/2021 05:37

Yes the Uniting Church is a kind of marriage of Methodist and Presbyterian. It is solidly established here.
DH said it's not normally like that with the regular minister. This one was a standin.

OP posts:
crabb · 31/01/2021 05:42

Wow, that is really surprising for a Uniting Church! I think They’re considered quite liberal on the church spectrum. Although there may be diversity depending on which original church they come from (Uniting Church formed in the 70s? combining Methodists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists).

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 05:45

Rogue minister then? I as your DH shocked? Or did he act like this was normal?

PontyberryMassive · 31/01/2021 05:47

Oh wow - I grew up in the Uniting Church. I'm not religious but when my child was going through a phase asking about religion and demanding me to take him to church, I found a Uniting Church near us and we went along a few times. It was very left wing and inclusive. Lots of work around Indigenous rights and reconciliation, they marry same-sex couples there, there are a few openly gay congregation members (in a small congregation of 20-30), more than one person regularly brings their dog to church, very "anything goes" despite the average age being 80ish! I don't think any of what you experienced is in line with the Uniting Church's philosophy at all.

I can't blame you for not wanting to go back - any homophobia would be a deal breaker for me - but I just wanted to let you know that all the Uniting Church branches I know are not at all like that, there are two local ministers who regularly get themselves arrested protesting about the poor treatment of asylum seekers in Australia and against the Adani coal mine.

crabb · 31/01/2021 05:47

Ah, snap OP!

Toilenstripes · 31/01/2021 05:54

There’s also Unity churches, which have a liberal view of the teachings of Jesus. Very worth a look in.

Oaktree1952 · 31/01/2021 05:59

This is not Christianity and certainly doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus. I agree many awful things have been done and said in the name of Christianity. But true Christians believe that Jesus wants us to love and accept everyone just like he did. If you find a church that doesn't preach that I'd walk away and find one that is actually preaching Christian values.

Original poster
StartupRepair · 31/01/2021 06:10

DH keeps saying 'well it is a broad church's. He was a bit shocked and also on the edge of his seat wondering if I was going to walk out.
He was drawn to Uniting by its social inclusion.

OP posts:
crabb · 31/01/2021 06:42

I can imagine DH’s chagrin. The one day you decide to come! 🤣

Nicolastuffedone · 31/01/2021 06:43

@Finfintytint

Welcome to Christianity. One stop shop for bigotry and hate.
I’m a churchgoer.........no bigotry or hate here.
Camomila · 31/01/2021 07:32

Basically my personal “rules” are to avoid Evangelicals or Catholics at all costs

I'm not offended but I'm Catholic and think Evangelicals tend to be much stricter! I suppose it's a case of what you are used to.

The Quakers sound really nice and I think are the most liberal (but I'd miss the singing)

OP that sermon sounds really unusual, most Christians I know aren't like that at all.

peak2021 · 31/01/2021 07:32

It's not any Christian church I have been to. My parents were both church going people but not the same church and neither were like that.

Sometimesonly · 31/01/2021 07:36

Welcome to Christianity. One stop shop for bigotry and hate.
And that's not bigoted or hateful at all! Angry

Churches are made up of people who can be wonderful or awful - you seem to have hit on a bad one there!

Sometimesonly · 31/01/2021 07:37

Basically my personal “rules” are to avoid Evangelicals or Catholics at all costs
I agree with a PP that I find Evangelicals far stricter. My local Catholic church was quite easy going in comparison.

jan9876 · 31/01/2021 07:41

Agree with Oaktree. Why don't you pursue a relationship with Jesus - just start talking to Him with everything you are feeling and reading some of the gospels. I stopped church for ages, found out what real Christianity was, and now found a small church group that is non judgemental, accepting, and we just believe in the bible, we can also disagree with each other and have discussions and its all fine. It took me awhile to find this group though! In the mean time please don't judge God/Jesus by what you find in the church some of it is toxic and not what Jesus stands for at all.

BoogleMcGroogle · 31/01/2021 07:46

OP that sounds like a terrible place, church or otherwise.

I’m not especially religious but my daughter sings in a church choir so I’m sometimes there for services. It’s an old-school Anglo Catholic rural church. Our lead vicar is in a same-sex relationship with the chair of the parish council. He’s very popular. We have two female assistant vicars. Sermons focus on social justice, being kind like Jesus, there’s a surprising focus on international and environmental issues. The congregation is older and it’s a pretty conventional area, but I’ve been surprised by how much chimes with me. I do get something nourishing from it, but I don’t have faith.

We also have a Quaker meeting house here and I’ve sat in a couple of meets. Kind and calm but I miss the hymns and smells.

I guess I’m trying to say that your husband has found a stinker of a church and there are nicer options out there if it’s your bag.

PurBal · 31/01/2021 07:56

I'm a Christian and it's no wonder you felt alienated. That sermon sounds horrific. I'd probably have walked out and written a formal complaint tbh. I would say that all churches are different and it sounds like this was a rogue minister.

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 08:04

I'm not offended but I'm Catholic and think Evangelicals tend to be much stricter! I suppose it's a case of what you are used to.

Yes I’m sure it’s partly that, although it’s also that the Vatican is still holding out against ordination of women, gay marriage, still some weirdness around contraception and homosexuality, although I do appreciate that this Pope is making the right noises. The smells and bells and rosaries I’m sure I’d quite enjoy, but that’s the superficial bit!

That said, I’ve sat through far more evangelical services in my youth (a few dozen) than catholic services ever (about four) and I do have a much more visceral terror of the happy clappies. I’ve seen far too much organised group hysteria and bigotry and talking in tongues and view it as highly manipulative.

Fieldofyellowflowers · 31/01/2021 08:41

I go to a Pentecostal church. We have ten pastors across five campuses and none of them would dream about preaching like that. In my church they don't have a problem with divorce, homosexuality, Trans etc. They are very pro inclusion, diversity and equality. They are not against abortion as long as it is what the person considering it definitely wants but if they thought for a second that someone was only getting one because they thought that it was their only option they would try to find a way to help them keep it.

They would be horrified if they heard someone preaching like that one you heard. We also have regular guest preachers (some from Pentecostal churches in Australia) and they would be horrified too.

NapCracklePop · 31/01/2021 08:46

Oh wow that is not typical for Presbyterians or Methodists, they are usually both very liberal denominations. Is it always like that or a rogue preacher?
If it's always like that, maybe encourage your DH to a more liberal church. If not, chalk it up as a bad week to visit.
That is not representative of all Christianity or all Christians. Like a pp, I'd have walked out and complained too.

pandapop17 · 31/01/2021 08:51

Some churches are more liberal but ultimately they all have the same awful source material The Bible! The Bible is sexist, homophobic and full of stories of god killing people. Some churches try and pretend they all about Jesus and his message of love but even he preached about hell.

Labobo · 31/01/2021 08:53

@Finfintytint

Welcome to Christianity. One stop shop for bigotry and hate.
Not all churches. But far too many sadly. It's why I left our local church.
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