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One visit to church has made me realise I'm no longer even a luke warm Christian.

85 replies

StartupRepair · 31/01/2021 05:03

DH has started attending a uniting church near us and has been quite enjoying it. He asked me to come to a service today with him. (In Australia not in lockdown). I'm raised Anglican, agnostic, care about social justice and would think I have values that align with Christianity.
To my horror the minister's sermon was about the terrible modern age we live in, where inclusion and diversity are everything and people are pro abortion and euthanasia. He said that it was not fair that people who oppose same sex marriage were treated as Nazis. Real Christians, he said, help to set the moral tone and don't just go along with what is socially fashionable.
I didn't walk out as I didn't want to embarrass DH but I hated it. I felt so alienated, when I had really gone along with an open mind and hoped to connect with a holy feeling and enjoy the music.
Has DH just fallen with a very hard line group or is this still the teaching of the church?

OP posts:
Saab9x · 31/01/2021 18:38

@AtlasPine

If you trust your husband, go again. If he says it’s not normally like that, I imagine he’s telling the truth.
Even if its not normally like that, they're still happy to have someone there preaching that shite.
Wearywithteens · 31/01/2021 20:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Hawkins001 · 31/01/2021 20:10

May be, society needs a religion based on science and enlightenment, and being excellent to each other.

StartupRepair · 31/01/2021 20:12

The stand in minister is used when there are 5 Sundays in a month. I will go one more time and meet the usual minister and have a conversation with her about it.

DC are young adults and will not be coming.

OP posts:
RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 20:25

@Hawkins001

May be, society needs a religion based on science and enlightenment, and being excellent to each other.
That’s what you get if you play Bill & Ted to a meeting of Humanists. Grin

Sounds fun (& quite compatible with liberal Xianity TBH).

Hawkins001 · 31/01/2021 20:31

Soon as I was thinking of my reply, I thought of them, now I wonder if I can borrow there time machine ?

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 20:34

Phone box, wasn’t it? Smile

bellropes · 31/01/2021 20:54

The problem with Christianity is no one really knows what the rules are and it's all a matter of the interpretation of a group of ancient, and rather awful, books.

Many churches and ministers follow St Paul's interpretation - he pretty much invented the Christian Church - and he was definitely rather awful.

I found Christianity to be hypocrisy central.

BerniesMittens · 31/01/2021 21:01

I believe all “Christians” are hypocrites.

I agree up in a deeply religious family yet they endorsed abortion, racial segregation etc, hated “people not like us” etc.

Anyone else I've known who is a regular churchgoer has done nothing to change my mind.

RickiTarr · 31/01/2021 21:11

I have a relative who is an immensely liberal vicar @BerniesMittens He is also gay, and has struggled a lot with different lines of thought within the church but ultimately stayed, partly because thinks have markedly improved. Would you tell him he was a hypocrite if you met him?

We are all (religious or secular) moving from a culture that believed in magic and superstition and interpreted things literally, towards a more kind and fact driven society.

This is all terribly controversial, but more and more Christians understand the Bible in a way that gives very little weight to the Old Testament or Paul (who was frankly bonkers and very bossy) and his Epistles and instead focuses on the example of Jesus. This will change even more in future generations.

Lots of religions, practised moderately, and lots of religious texts, read critically and metaphorically, hive really good moral guidelines for life.

We are not going to get peace in this world until we all learn to respect each others beliefs, whatever those are.

WoodpileHouse · 31/01/2021 21:17

That church sounds the opposite of most churches OP.
Of course it's difficult to know what is real and what isn't on the internet.

runningpram · 31/01/2021 21:20

Whatever you heard in that church is not Christianity

lightand · 31/01/2021 21:38

@bellropes The problem with Christianity is no one really knows what the rules are

All the rules are in the Bible.
A Bible costs about £15.

If a person does not read a book, they will not know what is in it.
It is better for someone to read it themselves, than rely on others to tell them.
In previous centuries, all the people who could not read had to rely on people telling them what it said.
Nowadays, almost everyone can read, and a lot of people have access to £15.
For anyone that doesnt, the Gideons give out parts of the Bible for free.
It is even possible at a Christian bookshop I know of, to get hold of parts of it, for £1.

GrasswillbeGreener · 31/01/2021 21:46

I'll add to those saying this sounds very surprising for a Uniting Church, in Sydney at any rate when I was growing up there, Uniting was almost too inclusive for my tastes (I'm happy to attend a church where everyone is welcome, but I don't necessarily want people with alternative lifestyles to be loudly advertising them there), whereas some Anglican churches would be too conservative (especially their approach to women although there were and I'm sure are some tremendous women working within it).

Your strategy of going along one more time and meeting and talking with their regular vicar sounds a very good one.

Hawkins001 · 31/01/2021 22:21

@RickiTarr

Phone box, wasn’t it? Smile
Indeed
Sphagnum · 31/01/2021 22:26

@GrasswillbeGreener

I'll add to those saying this sounds very surprising for a Uniting Church, in Sydney at any rate when I was growing up there, Uniting was almost too inclusive for my tastes (I'm happy to attend a church where everyone is welcome, but I don't necessarily want people with alternative lifestyles to be loudly advertising them there), whereas some Anglican churches would be too conservative (especially their approach to women although there were and I'm sure are some tremendous women working within it).

Your strategy of going along one more time and meeting and talking with their regular vicar sounds a very good one.

"Alternative lifestyles". Right then.
Hawkins001 · 31/01/2021 22:29

[quote lightand]**@bellropes* The problem with Christianity is no one really knows what the rules are*

All the rules are in the Bible.
A Bible costs about £15.

If a person does not read a book, they will not know what is in it.
It is better for someone to read it themselves, than rely on others to tell them.
In previous centuries, all the people who could not read had to rely on people telling them what it said.
Nowadays, almost everyone can read, and a lot of people have access to £15.
For anyone that doesnt, the Gideons give out parts of the Bible for free.
It is even possible at a Christian bookshop I know of, to get hold of parts of it, for £1.[/quote]
One of the issues I find is, if it's ment to be the word of god, and it is ment to be like a set of military orders, e.g. Go to a, be nice to people do good and then you will hopefully go to heaven,

Instead, firstly it's books that's added in or not included, that to me is odd, because if your following the words of god, or inspired by, then how can it be God's vision or intended guidance, if humans have got the book and decided amongst them selves, that the people can read these passages, but not these passages ect , and then they say have faith, faith in what exactly that when humans edited the book, and 're translated, that somehow a bit if even a bit exists , that's even left, of what was originally inspired by god, it's almost like someone 're making a movie e.g. A 100 times and hoping there's some of the original message or information left.

lightand · 31/01/2021 22:35

Christians, unless they are new Christians, know it to be true.
I once was watching over the shoulder of a younger Christian reading "the Bible" and could see that her "translation" was not The Bible, as certain words and sentences, when disecting them, did not add up. At first glance, it looked correct, but it was not.

lightand · 31/01/2021 22:36

KIng James, fine. NRSV, NIV, Good News, all good enough. There are probably others too, but am going to be bed now.

Karwomannghia · 31/01/2021 22:37

One homophobic priest is too many and there are far more than that. Once you drop religion you don’t have to make excuses for other people’s bigotry to try and make it all ok and lovely and ‘real christianity’. What you see is what you get and I decided a few years ago I would have no part of something that had bad parts. I had a discussion with a Christian the other day and she said her family were homophobic because of their faith and bless her she was tying herself in knots trying to make it all ok.

Sphagnum · 31/01/2021 22:37

@lightand

Christians, unless they are new Christians, know it to be true. I once was watching over the shoulder of a younger Christian reading "the Bible" and could see that her "translation" was not The Bible, as certain words and sentences, when disecting them, did not add up. At first glance, it looked correct, but it was not.
Know what to be true?
80sMum · 31/01/2021 22:56

I'm with you, OP. I used to be a Christian but I am no longer one.
Back in my youth, I was a fully paid up member of the "God Squad", used to go to church twice every Sunday, prayer meetings, and bible study midweek and outreach groups etc etc. I had a guitar and a tambourine and played them both with gusto every Sunday, I ran a kids bible study group, I helped with the Sunday School and also jointly ran a youth fellowship group.
DH was a deacon in the church and took turns with the other men to deliver the sermon on Sunday mornings.

Unfortunately it all went a bit tits up when a high-ranking member of the church committed a serious misdemeanor. The congregation split and 50% of members left. We moved house to another area shortly after that and couldn't settle into another church.

After a couple of years, I realised that I no longer wanted to go back to church and I haven't been a church member for 35 years now.

My mum's funeral a couple of years ago was a religious service (what she wanted). It made me all the more sure that when I die I want a humanist celebration, not a religious service banging on about everlasting life and all that rubbish. I firmly believe that when you're dead, you're dead and that's the end of it, so no point in pretending otherwise!

My younger self would not recognise me now, I think.

Sometimesonly · 01/02/2021 08:07

At first glance, it looked correct, but it was not.
If you are reading in English, that's always going to be a translation and so an interpretation.

pandapop17 · 01/02/2021 08:45

@Karwomannghia

One homophobic priest is too many and there are far more than that. Once you drop religion you don’t have to make excuses for other people’s bigotry to try and make it all ok and lovely and ‘real christianity’. What you see is what you get and I decided a few years ago I would have no part of something that had bad parts. I had a discussion with a Christian the other day and she said her family were homophobic because of their faith and bless her she was tying herself in knots trying to make it all ok.
Totally agree. Of course there are liberal Christians but why would you want to associate yourself with a faith which supports the murder of gay people in other countries. You can be a good person without the baggage of organised religion. People torture themselves with the cognitive dissonance of trying to make an outdated belief system fit. I think people also over exaggerate the amazing uniqueness of Jesus. He is not the only religious leader to instruct people to do good and some of his actions are questionable. I volunteer at a food bank and am a good neighbour. I don’t need church to tell me how to do that.

The only thing church can be good for is providing community but that can also be found in other places anyway.

screwyoutroll · 01/02/2021 16:20

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