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Original poster

FIL - costs of home issue

42 replies

needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:01

Hi

I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible, but I wondered if anyone has been in this position and could say how they handled it? Are we being unreasonable etc?

FIL is likely to leave hospital soon and into a home. He and MIL are on their second marriage - no joint children. Both have very separate finances , Wills are saying vast majority of assets to go to their individual children. There is a slight variation, in that both have said the surviving spouse will receive a very small amount, plus what's in the joint account.

The joint account up until 2 years ago (possibly more recent) was basically the account that bills/food was paid out of and they both contributed. So very little at all.

Until FIL ended up in hospital, they've lived together for several years in FIL's house. They each own a separate property too.

DH has had an awkward conversation with his step mum today. Obviously the care home is going to be very expensive so there is a plan how to fund that. DH discovered today that at some point in the last couple of years all of FIL's income has been moved into the joint account - his rent from his property, two pensions and a couple of other bits.

Now obviously this has made it difficult- FIL income is needed to pay the care bills (MIL is not funding any), but she's claiming that DH's Dad wanted her to have the joint account. Fair enough, no one wants to leave anyone short, but there isn't enough money in savings to pay the fees long term.

DH is also upset as his step mum is quite flippant about her husbands money ("he has plenty!!") - that's also DH and his brothers potential inheritance, but also particularly for them they see it as 50% their mums money as well. Obviously the possibility is it'll all get lost anyway, but is DH unreasonable to expect his Dads income (rent and pensions) to help to pay for the care costs? How would you handle this? We feel so caught in the moment that it's hard to see the wood from the trees

Sorry that wasn't so short after all Shock

OP posts:
Berthatydfil · 22/01/2021 18:06

I think that if he was applying for assistance with the fees his income and savings would be taken into account with appropriate allowances for dependants . So it’s not unreasonable given she has her own house so there is no need for him to house her either.
Tough situation though

VinylDetective · 22/01/2021 18:09

The care home bills should be addressed to Mil, it’s her job to pay them. She’ll be eager enough to separate the money again when they start rolling in.

SeasonFinale · 22/01/2021 18:10

I assume that if FIL owns a rental property that should be sold to fund his care home. Alternatively he has income from rent and pensions so this should be used to fund it.

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Dogsaresomucheasier · 22/01/2021 18:15

I think you need to separate what is essentially your father’s monthly income, (rent and pensions) from the idea of your dh’s inheritance. It’s to cover his living expenses and allow some savings for things like property maintenance. Ideally there would be a discussion with step mum about how the running costs of the home will decrease when he’s not living there and agree a sum that can go towards care fees without leaving her short. If he’s going to keep the second house you need to make sure there are savings to meet his obligations to his tenants, too.

But care home costs are going to devour his assets/the inheritance. That is an unpalatable reality.

ArtfulScreamer · 22/01/2021 18:19

Is there a financial power of attorney? Is FIL capable of having an input into how his care is funded? MIL is NOK so bills go to her and it's up to her to choose how she pays them. I think she'd probably struggle to sell the houses unless she has financial power of attorney.

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:20

@SeasonFinale

I assume that if FIL owns a rental property that should be sold to fund his care home. Alternatively he has income from rent and pensions so this should be used to fund it.
That's the plan, initially the income and some savings will fund it, then the property selling, then the main house.

DH and his brother are keen to keep the properties out of it for as long as possible

OP posts:
hatgirl · 22/01/2021 18:23

What does FIL think?

SnuffleBadger · 22/01/2021 18:26

It may be worth requesting a financial assessment from the local authority as they will go through things and separate everything out. There may be a charge for this assessment but at least they are a neutral party. This may be required anyway because if MIL is not willing to release funds money you may have to look to the local authority for interim funding.

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:28

@Dogsaresomucheasier

I think you need to separate what is essentially your father’s monthly income, (rent and pensions) from the idea of your dh’s inheritance. It’s to cover his living expenses and allow some savings for things like property maintenance. Ideally there would be a discussion with step mum about how the running costs of the home will decrease when he’s not living there and agree a sum that can go towards care fees without leaving her short. If he’s going to keep the second house you need to make sure there are savings to meet his obligations to his tenants, too.

But care home costs are going to devour his assets/the inheritance. That is an unpalatable reality.

Oh definitely, DH and his brother are just keen to avoid losing as much as possible, the rent etc would certainly be a huge help towards the fees.

It doesn't help that obviously with all of FIL's income going to his wife, ultimately that pot will go to her daughter - so feels like DH is going to end up having to use up all of his Dads savings to basically build up a nice little pile for his step sister. There is no way she'd tolerate this happening the other way round..!

Such a mess really. We really don't want to fall out with DH's step mum over this, but it doesn't feel unreasonable to expect some of FIL income to pay for his bills

OP posts:
Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:31

@hatgirl

What does FIL think?
He's in a bad way in hospital, so unfortunately it's not possible to know Sad

However we know he's always felt passionately about DH and his brother doing whatever they can to save money - always been adamant he wouldn't want to pay huge fees into care homes!! We feel certain, whilst he certainly wouldn't want his wife to be left high and dry, that his money is left to his children

OP posts:
PotteringAlong · 22/01/2021 18:35

However we know he's always felt passionately about DH and his brother doing whatever they can to save money - always been adamant he wouldn't want to pay huge fees into care homes!!

But he NEEDS the care and, whether he likes it or not, his money is there to pay for it. It’s not his choice to have something for nothing.

Purplewithred · 22/01/2021 18:40

So how does MIL think FIL’s care home bills are going to be paid?

hatgirl · 22/01/2021 18:42

He's in a bad way in hospital, so unfortunately it's not possible to know

So who has power of attorney for him? Whoever does gets to decide what happens to his savings and property that he doesn't share with SMIL

If no one has power of attorney then you will probably need to go through social services...

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:47

@PotteringAlong

However we know he's always felt passionately about DH and his brother doing whatever they can to save money - always been adamant he wouldn't want to pay huge fees into care homes!!

But he NEEDS the care and, whether he likes it or not, his money is there to pay for it. It’s not his choice to have something for nothing.

He doesn't and wouldn't expect it to. My point is more that we can't ask him, but based on his opinion of money etc we feel he wouldn't be happy to have all of his savings and likely his house sold when there is an income there that would make a big dent in the bill
OP posts:
Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:49

@Purplewithred

So how does MIL think FIL’s care home bills are going to be paid?
Using all of his savings and selling the house. Which will at some point happen, the hope was just that that would be further down the road
OP posts:
Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 18:49

@hatgirl

He's in a bad way in hospital, so unfortunately it's not possible to know

So who has power of attorney for him? Whoever does gets to decide what happens to his savings and property that he doesn't share with SMIL

If no one has power of attorney then you will probably need to go through social services...

DH and his brother both had POA
OP posts:
Iloveacurry · 22/01/2021 18:55

Unfortunately his house will need to be sold to pay for his care. What other choice is there?

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 19:01

@Iloveacurry

Unfortunately his house will need to be sold to pay for his care. What other choice is there?
Oh totally, but with the rent from his flat and some savings it'll be a lot further down the road

TBH we fully expect that the whole lot will go, it would just be good to keep as much as possible.

We probably are being unreasonable expecting the rent money etc to pay for some of his care, it's just been a bit of a shock to hear MIL announcing that she wants all of the money.

OP posts:
VinylDetective · 22/01/2021 19:01

So if there’s a POA in place, the joint account is split 50/50 and closed. Fil’s income goes into his own account and a standing order is set up for Mil. Job done. She can’t claim the entire contents of the joint account while Fil is alive.

dane8 · 22/01/2021 19:04

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

milienhaus · 22/01/2021 19:06

Are you saying that MIL wants to keep FILs future income and it not go towards his living costs at all? That is clearly ridiculous - that needs to go back into his own account if they have separate finances. Presumably she also has rental income etc from her own property?

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 19:06

@dane8 - yes all 3 are mortgage free, two are owned by FIL and one by MIL. So she can sell his property even if it doesn't belong to her?!

OP posts:
Clymene · 22/01/2021 19:08

Was he of sound mind when he decided to divert all his income into the shared account?

gifmenu · 22/01/2021 19:10

I would contact adult social care and raise it as a safeguarding concern. They will the have to investigate. His income and capital needs to be used for care fees and what his wife is doing could be considered financial abuse, especially if fil does not have capacity to consent to her using his money in this way. If you are going to be approaching the council for assistance with funding in the future they may consider deprivation of assets and step mother may be liable for paying the money back.

Original poster
needadvice54321 · 22/01/2021 19:10

@Clymene

Was he of sound mind when he decided to divert all his income into the shared account?
We don't know, this is going to be looked into
OP posts:
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