FIL - costs of home issue

[needadvice54321]

Hi

I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible, but I wondered if anyone has been in this position and could say how they handled it? Are we being unreasonable etc?

FIL is likely to leave hospital soon and into a home. He and MIL are on their second marriage - no joint children. Both have very separate finances , Wills are saying vast majority of assets to go to their individual children. There is a slight variation, in that both have said the surviving spouse will receive a very small amount, plus what's in the joint account.

The joint account up until 2 years ago (possibly more recent) was basically the account that bills/food was paid out of and they both contributed. So very little at all.

Until FIL ended up in hospital, they've lived together for several years in FIL's house. They each own a separate property too.

DH has had an awkward conversation with his step mum today. Obviously the care home is going to be very expensive so there is a plan how to fund that. DH discovered today that at some point in the last couple of years all of FIL's income has been moved into the joint account - his rent from his property, two pensions and a couple of other bits.

Now obviously this has made it difficult- FIL income is needed to pay the care bills (MIL is not funding any), but she's claiming that DH's Dad wanted her to have the joint account. Fair enough, no one wants to leave anyone short, but there isn't enough money in savings to pay the fees long term.

DH is also upset as his step mum is quite flippant about her husbands money ("he has plenty!!") - that's also DH and his brothers potential inheritance, but also particularly for them they see it as 50% their mums money as well. Obviously the possibility is it'll all get lost anyway, but is DH unreasonable to expect his Dads income (rent and pensions) to help to pay for the care costs? How would you handle this? We feel so caught in the moment that it's hard to see the wood from the trees

Sorry that wasn't so short after all

@milienhaus

Are you saying that MIL wants to keep FILs future income and it not go towards his living costs at all? That is clearly ridiculous - that needs to go back into his own account if they have separate finances. Presumably she also has rental income etc from her own property?

Yes exactly. It's not a small amount of money 2k+ just from FIL income

She cannot overrule the POA - your husband and his brother are effectively their dad so they can divert all his income wherever they need it to go.

Because there married it’s upto mil where money comes from unfortunately!

No it isn’t. Mil hasn’t got the POA, the sons have.

Absolutely.

I would expect the POA to be invoked to divert the income from the joint account to the care home to cover fees. Not for the fees to come out of the joint account.

What would stop the attorneys doing that ?

Firstly your FIL needs a SS referral and ask for a CHC assessment.
Then you will find out if he has to fund his own care.
The joint account -only 50% of the funds can be used for his care as it stands.

SS will do a full financial assessment and where care is needed he can go into a home with a 12 week property disregard while this happens-if the marital home is jointly owned this cannot be included while MIL lives in it.
If he has property in his own name that can be included plus his own income.
MIL cannot just ignore this and keep everything for herself and demand its funded from the rental properties.

If there's POA then your DH and his brother hold all the cards here, not MIL.

They are completely in control of his finances. I would suggest they get his income paid into a separate account from which you pay the care home bills.

I would also move 50% of the joint account funds into that same account to give you a buffer. Do this before you tell MIL you're doing it, otherwise she may move it first.

The joint account may become MILs once DFIL dies, but he's not dead yet, and your DH has the ability to manage his money and make financial decisions on DFILs behalf in his best interests.

Make sure you tell all bank accounts that you have POA not MIL.

There really isn't an issue here (apart from MILs annoyance) if you have POA. This is exactly what it's for!

@Templetree is incorrect he wont be eligible for a 12 week property disregard as this is only for a property you reside in and fil has a rental property. Also if he has capital and assets over £23,250 adults social care will not do a full financial assessment as he will be a self funder.

The easiest way to rectify this to get the LA involved - they organise the placement of the home and your DH completes a financial assessment form. It obvious that FIL will fully fund his placement, however the LA will pay the home and bill FIL for the money - they will expect that the bill is paid through income, before savings. Income that is FIL name, regardless of whether in a joint account or not, will be taken in to consideration.

[quote gifmenu]@Templetree is incorrect he wont be eligible for a 12 week property disregard as this is only for a property you reside in and fil has a rental property. Also if he has capital and assets over £23,250 adults social care will not do a full financial assessment as he will be a self funder.[/quote]
Depends on your authority. Ours do a full FA regardless.

If the brothers have financial POA then MIL's opinion is irrelevant here. Your Dad lacks capacity, all financial decisions must be made with his best interest's at heart i.e. paying his care home bills and maximising his income to make sure he has money to do this for as long as possible.

So doing this from rent and income is obvious. If this means breaking up joint account, so be it.

As a side issue, I would ask for a prognosis for your Dad given you say he was in a bad way in hospital. If it is less than 3 months then you should be asking for a CHC Fast Track in which case no fees are payable.

CHC is tough to get, depending on the diagnosis and care needs, but definitely worth asking.

It's particularly tough to get at this time of year, as the financial year draws to a close and the pot starts to run a bit dry...

*@Templetreeis incorrect he wont be eligible for a 12 week property disregard as this is only for a property you reside in and fil has a rental property. Also if he has capital and assets over £23,250 adults social care will not do a full financial assessment as he will be a self funder.

Depends on your authority. Ours do a full FA regardless.

Same here.

they will expect that the bill is paid through income, before savings.

They won’t give a shit where the money comes from. And they’re very unlikely to get involved when they know he’s self funding and not dependent on the sale of a house.

Thanks all, it's been a really tough couple of weeks and this just felt like another flipping hurdle. We are keen to not upset MIL (obviously!) but it's been really tricky managing everything whilst not being able to visit him either

Ultimately we just don't know how much longer FIL could live, if many years (unlikely but who knows) we need to make sure that there is enough funds to keep up the payments. Neither us or my BIL the would be in a position to help out financially unfortunately

DH wanting to keep as much inheritance as possible would be nice, more of his upset is that whilst DH is using up his Dads savings/selling the family home etc, his step mum is building up savings from the income which will ultimately go to her daughter, it might be what it is but it leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth unfortunately - he obviously hasn't said this to his step mum!

He's due a call from the solicitor next week so will see if they can help at all

Really appreciated all of your replies!

Does fil qualify for continuing care which is actually funded by the NHS? You need to check this first.

@ArnoldBee

Does fil qualify for continuing care which is actually funded by the NHS? You need to check this first.

We've got so much to check @ArnoldBee , we just don't know where to start! Adult services are involved, occ therapy have done an assessment and we've been calling care homes etc.

The pensions and rent are for the man's living costs and so should cover HIS living costs and if that is in a care home then so be it. If the wife remains in his house then I would pay for all repairs to the property but other than that it's all on her now.