Are unconditional offers from Uni ever a good thing?

[LegoAndLolDolls]

Not that this applies to us yet as my eldest is in the first year of A levels and pretty adamant he doesnt want to go to uni. I'm not going to push him either way as the desision was easy after my A levels, back in the day before fees.

I remember my friend being really chuffed when her dd was offered a unconditional place, as it was kind of sold that she was so talented that they desperately wanted her. Two years later she didnt have any more points than one year of a degree and had got into such a mess ( unis lack of direction and input with her modules and letting her start modules only to be told they clashed and stopping them etc). She left near the end of year two with one years worth of points and two years of debt. If she want to carry on to get a degree she has to totally restart at another uni.

So, are unconditional offers always just a ploy to get bums on seats?

Surely if students are clever enough to apply for uni they should be clever enough to at least look at league tables for their course!

Ah if only it were so simple.

Take first generation students for example- they are considerably less likely to apply to an elite university despite achieving the same level of qualifications. This isn't because they are less intelligent. There are lots of factors which influence the decision to apply to university abs to apply to particular universities.

I got unconditional offers for all the universities I applied to, but I already had my A-levels and had taken a Gap Ya wink before applying.

Even some top universities give unconditional offers to applicants who already have their exam results.

Oxford in the 70s and 80's was a different case. OP is obv talking about the newish trend for unconditionals. D'oh
Many of the more average performing kids at DC's school were given them and their parents were hilarious in crowing that it was bc their children were so talented. Its bums on seats pure and simply in most cases. A large number of these students didn't work hard enough at A level and ended up dropping out in their first or second years.
It was very demoralising tho for DD and DS who were aiming v high to have students walking into the common room saying oooo aren't I clever bc I got an unconditional.

It would be a bit pointless to do otherwise.

No, if you can fill in a ucas form and use the Internet you can check the league tables. If you are predicted DDE thats not lack of confidence shutting doors, thats taking what you can get.

Of course applicants can check league tables. If you're predicted AAA but you're the first in your family to go to university, you live on the 15th floor of a council block with your single parent mum who cleans for a living, you may be capable of UCL, but you don't have the social confidence to feel you'd fit it, nor the self belief that you are capable of AAA, so when you get an unconditional from LondonMet you take it because it's within your comfort zone.

Seriously, don't underestimate just how bloody difficult and confidence-draining some kids lives are.

No, if you can fill in a ucas form and use the Internet you can check the league tables. If you are predicted DDE thats not lack of confidence shutting doors, thats taking what you can get.

How do you explain the fact that first generation students and students from lower socioeconomic group are more like to apply to non- elite universities despite having the entry requirements required by higher ranked institutions?

It's cultural capital, unconscious bias, student-institutional fit..... and it's a big issue!

Yes of course universities give unconditionals AFTER results. DS got one from Cambridge. Didn't make him more clever than those applying before their results are known though.

Even some top universities give unconditional offers to applicants who already have their exam results.

This isn't what's being discussed here though. We are talking about unconditional offers being given before exams have even been sat.

This isn't what's being discussed here though. We are talking about unconditional offers being given before exams have even been sat

I know. My post was in direct response to the poster that I quoted.

How do you explain the fact that first generation students and students from lower socioeconomic group are more like to apply to non- elite universities despite having the entry requirements required by higher ranked institutions?

Want to stay close to home?

I mean entry requirements really couldn't be clearer or easier to access.

@MyVisionsComeFromSoup I like her style

I mean entry requirements really couldn't be clearer or easier to access.

You really don't get it, and I doubt you want to anyway.

Also i dont think it helps that many RG unis have some eye wateringly accommodation options with no guarantee that you won't be offered it. The threat of having to pay 8k a year at Exeter put a friend of dds off.

Yes I'm.talking about unconditional offers before sitting exams, at normal sixth form / college ucas application time.

I think I can get my head around Oxford ect with entrance exams or music / art portfolios. But even with arts and music you would expect good grades to some extent

@GCAcademic

I mean entry requirements really couldn't be clearer or easier to access.

You really don't get it, and I doubt you want to anyway.

That's rude. I think its patronising to assume poorer teens can't read entry requirements and league tables!

But it isn't about "reading entry requirements and league tables".

Three people who work in higher education have tried to explain it to you, but you keep repeating this point.

I think they should be restricted, I remember the one child at school who had one not doing much work post Christmas towards his A levels, a work colleague whose child had one likewise, and other accounts.

I think if you have done A levels and have grades, fair enough, maybe for some other defined circumstances only.

That's rude. I think its patronising to assume poorer teens can't read entry requirements and league tables!

Have you bothered to read the previous posts? Yes poorer students do look at league tables and entry requirements. What makes you think they don't?

They STILL often apply to lower grade universities for a myriad of reasons, and handing out unconditionals encourages them to settle for lower tariff places.

We have explained why this is - perhaps read this thread.

That's rude. I think its patronising to assume poorer teens can't read entry requirements and league tables!

You really don't get it though. It is far more complex and multifaceted then you are suggesting.

I did my PhD on this subject and specifically focused on first generation students - over 80,000 words and I can honestly tell you at no point was there a suggestion that poor people can't read or understand entry requirements.

Some of the conservatoires are giving (proper) unconditional offers this year although this is not such a big step as the standard conservatoire offer is EE as they base their selection on audition rather than A level performance.

I think that there is a bit of confusion about what an unconditional offer is with people talking about EE as an unconditional "back in the day". At that point you had to have EE to go to university as that was the matriculation requirement. The exceptions to that were mature students and those gaining open scholarships to Oxbridge via the entrance exam. Everyone else had to get at least EE. DH actually had an unconditional offer from Oxford as he took and passed 2 A levels in the lower 6th - neither were related to his actual degree subject so in theory he could have failed his A level in that and still studied it. EE offers weren't that uncommon from other universities for the best arts students at the time - I had EE from UCL and Nottingham and was not unusual in my year at school. It's a different world now with bright students getting AAA offers from their 4th choice unis.

@Changi

This isn't what's being discussed here though. We are talking about unconditional offers being given before exams have even been sat

I know. My post was in direct response to the poster that I quoted.

Apologies

It was common for Oxford to give 2 E offers in my day. But they were still picking from those predicted all As.
The current unconditional offers are bizarre to me.

I think the Birmingham CCC offers are "if firmed" so have a flavour of the unconditional offers we're talking about. My daughter has one of these, although has a reachable offer elsewhere so definitely won't be influenced by it. I think her "actual" offer is now ABB and she is feeling positive about it as an insurance possibility.

@MrsMiaWallis

How do you explain the fact that first generation students and students from lower socioeconomic group are more like to apply to non- elite universities despite having the entry requirements required by higher ranked institutions?

Want to stay close to home?

I mean entry requirements really couldn't be clearer or easier to access.

In my closest city we have one RG and two non-RG, mid to low ranked universities. FGS and those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds apply tend to apply/attend the non-RG universities even when getting the graded they need for the RG university.

Wanting to stay close to home isn't a factor here.

I got an unconditional offer. I applied as a mature student, without completing an access course, on the basis of some prior uni level work (open uni) and experience.

I'm a consistently 1st class 2nd year now, well I usually am when Covid isn't playing havoc with things.. Without unconditional offers I'd have had to jump through hoops to get onto my course. It's a course that leads to good, public servant sort of employment. There is definitely value to them, IMO.

That said, I agree that handing 18 year old's doing A Levels unconditional offers is likely to make them less motivated to actually achieve decent A Level grades.