Are unconditional offers from Uni ever a good thing?

[LegoAndLolDolls]

Not that this applies to us yet as my eldest is in the first year of A levels and pretty adamant he doesnt want to go to uni. I'm not going to push him either way as the desision was easy after my A levels, back in the day before fees.

I remember my friend being really chuffed when her dd was offered a unconditional place, as it was kind of sold that she was so talented that they desperately wanted her. Two years later she didnt have any more points than one year of a degree and had got into such a mess ( unis lack of direction and input with her modules and letting her start modules only to be told they clashed and stopping them etc). She left near the end of year two with one years worth of points and two years of debt. If she want to carry on to get a degree she has to totally restart at another uni.

So, are unconditional offers always just a ploy to get bums on seats?

That being said, if you already have the results required - what conditions are the uni supposed to give out? Other than asking you to come to an interview, which is sensible imo.

@DoTheNextRightThing

That being said, if you already have the results required - what conditions are the uni supposed to give out? Other than asking you to come to an interview, which is sensible imo.

I don't think anyone is talking about that kind of situation here. That is clearly different.

DS has an unconditional for this UCAS cycle, I work in HE and also thought they were banned at the moment. He also has a reduced grade requirement offer from Sussex if he firms them.

He now thinks that the unconditional offer + no A Levels means he can just relax until September

@titchy

Nonsense. DH had an unconditional offer from Oxford, as did many of his friends.

I suspect OP is talking about the current climate of unconditionals (temporarily banned as GC says) - not debating the old 'practice of 'unconditionals because offers depended on entry exams' of years ago - HE has changed considerably since then.

Or was that a stealth 'my dh went to Oxford' boast

If I was going to boast I'd have mentioned I did too.

The system of entrance exams and interviews mean that admissions tutors at Oxford have always been able to give some unconditional offers, although they have always been unusual.

A very talented musician friend of mine was given a very low offer of 2 Ds by the Royal Academy of Music, which was as good as an unconditional offer given her previous academic record.

@DialsMavis

DS has an unconditional for this UCAS cycle, I work in HE and also thought they were banned at the moment. He also has a reduced grade requirement offer from Sussex if he firms them.

He now thinks that the unconditional offer + no A Levels means he can just relax until September

That's sneaky.

Unconditional offers aren't banned. It's conditional unconditionals that are (i.e. when you are made the unconditional offer on the condition that you firm the university).

Sussex is obviously getting around this ban by placing conditions on reduced entry offers rather than on unconditional offers.

This was a few years ago - and is going to sound arrogant - but I got a couple unconditional offers to top unis. It was quite a relief - and meant they I just got on with my exams rather than stressing about then, probably did better as a result .

But I when I hear of kids getting unconditional offers, it's always with a positive spin

Let me guess. From the recipients’ parents? Just fancy that!

Sounds dodgy to me. Makes me wonder if they just want the fees and don't care if the student drops out

Ya THINK??

Expect to see much more of this, later this year. I read that a certain number of universities are in deep financial trouble, so will do pretty much anything to get students, and their fees, through the doors. Unfortunately we are not permitted to know which institutions are on the skint list, because it would put people off applying. You can probably take a good guess based on the proportion of unconditional offers, though.

Gosh. You learn a new thing every day. I had no idea about the rubbish unis offering unconditional to woo people. In my day a friend had an unconditional from Oxford and I had a 2Es offer from Durham which I turned down. I felt pretty awesome about myself because of it, never thought that they were short on people. (Didn't take it up so I don't know the truth).
I remember once asking the lecturer in charge of admissions why different people on the same course got different offers, hoping for something like "well your personal statement was just so wonderful." Instead I got "Well there's no point giving people targets the won't meet." Thump.
I read my personal statement that I was so proud of recently. It was hilarious. I was looking forward to "using the internet."

Anyway back on topic. Surely the offer you receive shouldn't influence your choice (as long as you get one). If you like it and want to go there then pick it. If you don't then don't.

The admissions lecturer was at the uni I did go to, not Durham

My DS got an unconditional offer to his first choice of uni to study music. I think it was because you had to be an excellent musician to even get through the door. He also had to audition.

Anyway back on topic. Surely the offer you receive shouldn't influence your choice (as long as you get one). If you like it and want to go there then pick it. If you don't then don't.

Unfortunately it does influence some applicants' choices. In particular, it's known to do so with students from poorer backgrounds or who don't have the family background of university education, and who end up accepting a place at a university that is lower ranked than the one they might otherwise have ended up at.

@GCAcademic

Oxford is a different situation. They have always given out unconditional offers and are able to do so as they have an entrance examination for most courses that is more reliable for their purposes than A levels are. They're not doing it to get bums on seats.

Oxford don't now give out unconditional offers.

When I applied, I got 3 unconditional offers (or EE which was the minimum offer then).

1. Oxford, which you only got if you did the exam. If you didn't do the exam, which was optional, you got a "normal" graded offer.
2. Cardiff, which did a November sell interview. We discovered very quickly that what was common in the group that had been called in was we'd all applied to Oxbridge. It was a clever ploy, and I think one that was aimed at picking up good candidates. I'd certainly have put it as my insurance if I hadn't got into Oxford. It may have increased the aptitude of the candidates going.
3. Another uni, I can't remember which, but it may have been Leicester, which must have sent the offer back by return of post because I received it before the UCAS "received your application" postcard. It was clearly a bums on seats reply.

The problem now is that I think the unconditional are disproportionately similar to #3.
It's one thing a uni doing their own exam/assessment and deciding that they shows them what they want to know. Or handpicking candidates and picking the top ones to try and encourage them their way.
But it's another situation when they just send them out to try and get people to reply quickly.
The particularly bad ones are where they say it's unconditional if you put them first. I think those should be banned.

Did having one stop me working? Yes, and no. I still worked at Maths/FM because I enjoyed it and knew I needed it to go further (studying maths). I don't think having to get AA (no A* then) in those would have made much difference except stressing me out.
Physics, actually it probably did make a bit of difference. I did get an A, but I think I'd have worked harder at it to make sure of the A.

So no, I don't think they're always a bad thing. For a student who is stressed by exams, or had a period of illness or just naturally anxious, it may take the pressure off and enable them to perform better because they don't have the stress.

We discovered very quickly that what was common in the group that had been called in was we'd all applied to Oxbridge. It was a clever ploy, and I think one that was aimed at picking up good candidates. I'd certainly have put it as my insurance if I hadn't got into Oxford.

This has triggered a memory- it was the received wisdom at one time that there was no point applying to certain unis (Durham, Bristol etc) if you had also applied to Oxbridge as they wouldn’t waste an offer on you. My year was the first that UCAS applications were ‘blind’ and your chosen institutions couldn’t see where else you had applied. Of course, the fact that your application was in by October 15 remained a pretty massive clue

Unfortunately it does influence some applicants' choices. In particular, it's known to do so with students from poorer backgrounds or who don't have the family background of university education, and who end up accepting a place at a university that is lower ranked than the one they might otherwise have ended up at.

This is why they are so unethical. They can put pressure on young people who aren't familiar with the system or who don't have the confidence to see it for what it is.

@SueEllenMishke

Unfortunately it does influence some applicants' choices. In particular, it's known to do so with students from poorer backgrounds or who don't have the family background of university education, and who end up accepting a place at a university that is lower ranked than the one they might otherwise have ended up at.

This is why they are so unethical. They can put pressure on young people who aren't familiar with the system or who don't have the confidence to see it for what it is.

Surely if students are clever enough to apply for uni they should be clever enough to at least look at league tables for their course!

@YippieKayakOtherBuckets

We discovered very quickly that what was common in the group that had been called in was we'd all applied to Oxbridge. It was a clever ploy, and I think one that was aimed at picking up good candidates. I'd certainly have put it as my insurance if I hadn't got into Oxford.

This has triggered a memory- it was the received wisdom at one time that there was no point applying to certain unis (Durham, Bristol etc) if you had also applied to Oxbridge as they wouldn’t waste an offer on you. My year was the first that UCAS applications were ‘blind’ and your chosen institutions couldn’t see where else you had applied. Of course, the fact that your application was in by October 15 remained a pretty massive clue

DD1 sent off her application on 16th October, just to make the point to her top choice that she wasn't applying to Oxbridge (her predicted grades were at Oxbridge levels) .

I had an unconditional offer of two EEs. Took all the pressure off and I got straight AAAs. Was great to enjoy my subject and focus on improving and learning not just jump through exam hoops.

Surely if students are clever enough to apply for uni they should be clever enough to at least look at league tables for their course!

You are confusing intelligence and confidence.

@GCAcademic

Surely if students are clever enough to apply for uni they should be clever enough to at least look at league tables for their course!

You are confusing intelligence and confidence.

No, if you can fill in a ucas form and use the Internet you can check the league tables. If you are predicted DDE thats not lack of confidence shutting doors, thats taking what you can get.

I also didn't know this was a thing! Universities do behave more like businesses these days I think.

I went to a 'glass plate' university. I got unconditional offers for all the universities I applied to, but I already had my A-levels and had taken a Gap Ya before applying. Is that what you mean op? If he is applying with grades in hand, then he can only get unconditional offers or no offers iyswim. Or at least, that is how it was when I did it.

Unconditional offers are, or were, pretty common for some art and design courses where portfolios of work carry more weight than exam grades.

Birmingham is offering CCC all over the place this year, most of DS's friends have this offer, across all different subjects. Whilst not unconditional, it would have to be a pretty major disaster for these kids to not meet CCC, none of them have predictions below AAB

@ParisJeTAime

I also didn't know this was a thing! Universities do behave more like businesses these days I think.

I went to a 'glass plate' university. I got unconditional offers for all the universities I applied to, but I already had my A-levels and had taken a Gap Ya before applying. Is that what you mean op? If he is applying with grades in hand, then he can only get unconditional offers or no offers iyswim. Or at least, that is how it was when I did it.

Plate glass I mean! Always get that wrong

Disadvantaged students will take offers below their predicted grades because they lack confidence.

That's before we get to the fact that unconscious bias means that predicted grades are often lower than they should be for certain groups of applicants.