Help! I can only do friendships one to one......

[Justiceishalfblind]

I would appreciate a chat about my friendship group issues as they make me sad and I need some Mumsnet tough love

I think I have classic “female” autistic traits. I also was brought up in a dysfunctional family where my mum was ashamed of us not being the fantasy family she had in her head.

I suspect do not conduct myself well in informal groups of women but I long to feel part of one :(

To give some examples:
The best friend I made in antenatal classes set up a book club and told me I wouldn’t be in it “because you’d keep going on about the books”

Another friend gently advised me to “keep it light” on the playground

I remember long ago being told I wouldn’t be invited to a dinner party “because she can dominate”

I’m not level-headed (for a long time I thought I was because I had to keep the peace between my parents and would go “cold” to do it -but that’s not the same thing is it? :( )

I find it hard to let things go/ let the conversation move on.....

Even one to one, I often fail to realise who my real friends are until there is a crisis, clinging to people with higher status (captain of the netball team type people, pretty people - essentially people my mum wanted me to be)

I can be needy with the “higher status” people

This makes me sound awful but on the plus side

• I do have some nice one-to-one friendships (though not exactly sisterly)
• I am an excellent mentor at work and generate long term loyalty amongst those who report to me
• I can get clients to tell me secrets even they didn’t know they had...I really help them

-pre pandemic I would regularly be told by people that a casual conversation with me had greatly helped them with a problem

• under another name I have greatly helped people on Mumsnet. I get private messages asking my opinion. People start threads asking if I am around to advise because they have read something I wrote 10 years ago. That’s a great honour and makes me feel proud.

-I have led community projects, one of which deploys all my empathy with kids who feel like outsiders in a special way. Strangers come up to me to say how much I have helped their child.

Shame holds you back and it has taken a long time to recognise the internalised shame from my upbringing. But I would like to improve. There are somethings that may be hard-wired with the autism (auditory processing issues). But other things I can improve.

I would appreciate some Mumsnet thoughts. Tin hat is on.

Bump. Sorry it was long!

What I get from your OP is that you're very focused on adding value to situations, being a helpful colleague, giving good advice etc and this might be the well meaning reason behind being a bit dominating. Not saying this is definitely true but it seems to be a pattern in the feedback you have received.

Book groups tend to use the book as a starter but allow the conversation to wander a bit too so people get to know each other.In the case of clinging to playground queen bees, you were still trying to add value by hanging around and feeding their ego, from what you say.

People clearly like and value you. Maybe you need to realise that they like you for who you are, not what you can do for them.

I think I have classic “female” autistic traits.

There are somethings that may be hard-wired with the autism (auditory processing issues). But other things I can improve.

Thinking like that is probably holding you back as you only 'think' you have autistic traits.

I'd concentrate on seeing someone professional to talk through the childhood 'shame'.

Thank you “deliverance”.

I like your concept of adding value.

Yes, I get confused by apparently purposeless communication, to the point of just faking smiles when people are bantering.

One joke I tell against myself is that I might bump into an old acquaintance in the vegetable aisle, she might tell me about, say, a wish to start her own business, and then when our trolleys meet again in the bread aisle I give her six business plan suggestions and she replies “I just wanted to go shopping”

The anecdote is a comic exaggeration of a conversation I had in real life a few years ago.....

Thank you Worra. [another reply has, I think, got lost but apologies if it reappears as a duplicate]
I didn’t even know that the word for the feeling was “shame” till I was about 35.
Mum had an alternative fantasy family for about 8 years. People IRL are just astounded when I tell them. I have only heard of one person with similar and that was on a radio interview
So maybe a professional is the way to go

I think you sound lovely.

I think maybe your friend hit the nail on the head when she told you to keep things light.

I do think when you're chatting, just because you're talking about a problem with someone, doesn't mean yiu want the other person to solve it.

Although I do fancy hearing some of uiur business ideas.

See, I know someone very like that, very accomplished, very eager to help and makes great suggestions.

However, what he doesn't do, or it doesn't feel like it, is consider that the person may have already thought of ample suggestions for a business plan (to use your jokey example) even if they have not told him so.

It feels as though he is assuming they haven't, which can come across rather patronising and domineering.

In such situations, do you find yourself asking what people would like help with, if anything, or going straight in with solutions?

You sound a little like me (I received a later-life diagnosis of what used to be called Asperger's in my early 30s).

I'm a problem solver - I love to take something on, unpick all the complexities and make it better: a 'build a better mousetrap' sort of a person. That makes me exceptionally good at my job, DIY projects etc, but maybe not so great when a friend is experiencing a crisis or just wants to talk something through.

I'm extremely lucky in that my OH, family and close friends 'get' me and understand that it is, to an extent, just how I am.

However, I've also managed to teach myself, in some situations, to metaphorically 'sit on my hands' - I know that sometimes people just want to unload without looking for a solution (I will never necessarily understand why, but that's a different story!), so I have a range of facial expressions and noises I pull out for such occasions.

Is it especially authentic? No. Is it the right thing to do? Perhaps not. But, even though I am ND, the vast majority of the world is not, and this is one of the little tricks I keep in my toolbox to help me try to build some social cohesion with the NT world.

These are lovely replies, I am reading them and thinking about them.
See? Being part of a group on Mumsnet is sooooo much easier!

I agree, one to one friendships are much easier for me too. You sound very like me in that respect op.

I deal with group situations by analysing “the rules”. I count how long people talk for, what topics, how often they speak etc, and try to mimic it.

I’m loving the coronavirus rule of only meeting with 1 other household (Scotland) as I haven’t had to have a group social in months.

I have one friend who is similar to me, and breaks “the rules” of light conversation with overly long stories. It drives me mad now because I look at the rules all the time, even though I should empathise as I’m so similar!

Hope this helps a bit.

Hmm this is really helpful.
I was an isolated child forever reading about tight-knit groups of children, then an adolescent envying easy unconditional-seeming groups of friends. I mean like in those Hugh Grant films or “Yesterday” where everyone is really sad yet they have this group of at least five other people who never fall out and are as close as family.

I always think how can they be so sad with such a friendship group to fall back on?

Pea potter are there any books I could buy?

“I deal with group situations by analysing “the rules”. I count how long people talk for, what topics, how often they speak etc, and try to mimic it. ‘

I’m happy to learn by rote. I never had a chance to learn growing up. Was a bit desperate I guess....

Yes to going in with solutions.
Yes to problem solving.

It’s loneliness and a fear of not being accepted.

It hasn’t affected marriage or mothering because the dynamic is so different

Hi. You sound like me. I want to be helpful and sometimes I just need to hold back. Part of my problem is I struggle to think of things to talk about so I loop back to things. I find it really hard as I think I am friendly with people and they always say hi and sometimes stop for a chat when we bump into each other but I’m not in any close groups where I’d be invited to a night out. I find it really hard.

You sound a bit like me. I prefer one to one friendships, and struggle to read social cues in group situations. Over the years I have managed to adapt a bit, and think I manage better than I did. I avoid dominating conversations and am wary if I feel I am giving to much of myself in friendships. Being helpful is a nice trait, but you can become vulnerable to people using you as a confidante and not reciprocating.

But ultimately you are who you are, allow yourself to be a bit different it is ok. Just be a bit aware, but being comfortable in your own skin is important.
And yes looking back, I guess I could have some autistic traits - not sure labelling is always helpful though.

Sympathies Jervis x

I like “ think less about “rules” and more about “rhythm”, that’s very nice.
And putting in effort without overwhelming.

Hmmm, lots to ponder.

It may be that the dominating behaviour comes from not feeling the rhythm and instead beating my own drum as it were?

‘If you think too much your brain gets in the way of “doing things naturally”.

This was a big problem for me with sport. Curiously I now play it better because it’s with my kids, with whom I am relaxed.

‘Song ponder too much, relax, be lead by the other person and try to make things about them (but not in a pushy way).’

Hmmm, so maybe post-pandemic I need more group interactions but each one should be low consequence? Over-thinking has led to neediness - and in truth some jealousy. Which is daft because I wouldn’t want to be anyone but me because only I have my sons iyswim

I wonder if it might help to think less about “rules” and more about “rhythm”

Good advice for neurotypicals, but many on the spectrum can't feel the rhythm, hence why we structure our lives around rules. Going down the rhythm route would make me overwhelmed - too much to focus on at once - at which point I'm likely to blurt out something about the conversation that was over five minutes ago!

Do you think a diagnosis would help you OP? There's next to no help on the NHS unfortunately. You can occasionally find a therapist who is on the spectrum themselves, or self identifies as such, that might feel like a safe space to explore your feelings?

“Good advice for neurotypicals, but many on the spectrum can't feel the rhythm, hence why we structure our lives around rules.”

Oh this is fascinating!

So ladies now we have another reason want the pandemic to end -I need to get out there and see if I’m capable of “feeling the rhythm!” ;)

One thing to be aware of re diagnosis, many women are misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder/ complex PTSD rather than ASD. You might fall into this group because of your childhood experiences, and it may even be the right diagnosis for you. There is a stigma around BPD and C-PTSD that may leave you feeling worse.

I'd read up on it before pursuing diagnosis (if that's what you want to do).

I wanted to give you a helpful link explaining the above, but there are so many I can't decide, so I'll post them all!

www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03lOGm_pKc40JAQhQ0cBnbLlK8uyA%3A1609701414412&q=bpd+misdiagnosis+autism&oq=bpd+misdiagnosis+autism&aqs=heirloom-srp..